Macro-Elmar-M 90mm vs Zeiss Tele-Tessar-M 85mm

[indergaard]

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For critical sharpness at infinity, say astrophotography, manual focus is needed. This is easily seen with the outstanding EVF on the SL at 10x magnification, and it holds for all (as far as I recall...) lenses I have tested, including Leica M, Leica R, Zeiss (Otus), Voigtländer and Nikon (G). Several of the Leica M lenses are really off when it comes to the infinity mark. On the SL, the M-to-L adapter adds to this, but similar tendencies are seen with M-bodies with EVF and magnification activated (in my case M240 and M246, I dont have the M10).

 

A problem with any infinity hard stop is that the infinity focus can be temperature dependent. So infinity during the day may not be similar to infinity during the night.

 

The beauty with high-res EVFs are that you see what the sensor sees, so focus can be critically nailed.

 

 

None of my M lenses is off at infinity. It wouldn't be acceptable if they were, and I would have them serviced. And I certainly wouldn't purchase a lens that isn't within correct specifications. Even Leica CS agrees that this is not normal, and that the lens requires service.

 

Some people might tolerate lenses that are out of spec, because it can be worked around with EVF's and LV. That doesn't mean it's normal. I want my hard stops to be correct so that I can avoid fiddling with EVF's and magnification and all these things that I don't like using If I liked fiddling with EVF's, magnification, EFCS on/off, and tons of stuff like that, I would probably use my A7rIII more than I do.

Edited June 1, 2018 by indergaard

[Nordvik]

I agree. One of the best things about the M-system is relying on the hard stop at infinity. I live in rural Norway, and I guess 1/4 of my pictures are taken at infinity. If I had to use an EVF with focus magnification for every shot I would have gone crazy.

[helged]

Shooting stars with e.g. the 28 Lux-M or Zeiss Otus 28mm wide open at the infinity mark is aking for trouble. Shooting distant landscapes/mountains at e.g. f4, f5.6 or f8 is someting else. For the latter, I have never used any evf or live view for focusing. For the former, I always use evf + magnification, also for calibrated lenses/bodies.

Edited June 1, 2018 by helged

[rpittal]

I agree that the use of an M rangefinder gives a sense of freedom compared to using an EVF. I had DAG calibrate my M lenses to my M246. I do use mag view on my SL periodically being much more convenient than the M-EVF combo (which also drove my nuts and was very awkward and slow compared to RF, but is good to have if you want to super-critical focus check; look at fine details and not rely on colored contrast indicators). For astrophotography, I use mag live view on my Sony a7S and Batis/Otus lenses.

[helged]

Another issue shooting wide open is that the plane of focus is (genrally) not flat. Therefore, for astrophotography, I usually focus 1/3 off center, giving an overall sharpness across the image. This is easily done with the SL, not with the M, and certainly not with an M-lens set to infinity.

Edited June 2, 2018 by helged

[jaapv]

I do care how it behaves at infinity and I am very much pleased with how mine behaves on M240. The following picture was a quick grab shot by simply turning the focus ring to infinity while the animals were running away. It is sharp enough to identify the animals in 1:1 zoom.

 

https://flic.kr/p/wgkimC

 

On EVF cameras the infinity stop will not coincide with infinity focus due to adapter thickness (known issue), but on M cameras it is fine.

Yes, one can see the animals very well, but I do think you have sharpened it for print, not for screen.

[jmahto]

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Yes, one can see the animals very well, but I do think you have sharpened it for print, not for screen.

I am glad you asked (not really but it gives me an opportunity to show 1:1 un-sharpened crop. And yes, flickr image is sharpened but look at unsharpened pic below. )

 

Shot at f4. 1:1 crop with NO sharpening in LR. No sharpening while exporting. Only jpeg compression 60%.

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Now if you do enlarge and sharpen then you can get even more details. This one is enlarged by (scale 150 and sharpening amount 40 in LR) and exported without sharpening. Only jpeg compression 60%.

 

My 90macro-elmar M is sharp enough for infinity at infinity stop even wide open at f4. 

 

BTW, interesting factoid > You are seeing 3 bighorns out of only 600 in the wild today. Good news is that their population is increasing but they are still endangered species. The following link mentions Mt. Langley area as possible place to find them where I took the picture.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/snbs/SheepFacts.html

Edited June 2, 2018 by jmahto

[adan]

BTW, interesting factoid > You are seeing 3 bighorns out of only 600 in the wild today. Good news is that their population is increasing but they are still endangered species. The following link mentions Mt. Langley area as possible place to find them where I took the picture.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/snbs/SheepFacts.html

 

Sierra Nevada subspecies (and location) - perhaps. But we have nearly 7000 in the wild just in Colorado alone. Heck, even Nevada has 1900 California Bighorns and 8900 Desert Bighorns and 290 Rocky Mountain Bighorns.

 

https://www.gohunt.com/read/bighorn-numbers-across-6-states#gs.T7gUsYM

 

Nevertheless - congratulations on the sighting!

[jmahto]

Sierra Nevada subspecies (and location) - perhaps. But we have nearly 7000 in the wild just in Colorado alone. Heck, even Nevada has 1900 California Bighorns and 8900 Desert Bighorns and 290 Rocky Mountain Bighorns.

 

https://www.gohunt.com/read/bighorn-numbers-across-6-states#gs.T7gUsYM

 

Nevertheless - congratulations on the sighting!

Not to digress too much... I am surprised why the above link doesn’t have California numbers. I am also not knowledgeable about subspecies differences that’s why don’t know why conservation of Sierra Nevada subspecies matters when others are plentiful but I will say this... it felt so strange when I saw them running across in that kind of landscape. It was at 11,000+ft well above tree line with hardly any vegetation or water. Very few times seeing an animal in natural surroundings had that much impact on me..... and I was glad I had M249+90macroelmar m that I could whip out in a hurry and quickly shoot before they disappeared.

[adan]

Not to digress too much... I am surprised why the above link doesn’t have California numbers. 

 

Probably because that link is to a hunting site, and CA is not of much interest to Bighorn hunters. Only 17 tags alloted each year statewide, even for the non-endangered Desert subspecies (found east of Barstow, mostly). Shooting them with your 90 Elmar is, of course, permitted (back on topic).

[luigi bertolotti]

This comparision Leica 90 vs. Zeiss 85 has intrigued me...  and have decided to compare the Macro Elmar 90 in its own field with a Zeiss 85 used in the same way (the Zeiss isn't a Tessar but a Sonnar 85 f2) :

 

First Macro Elmar at f 5,6 then Sonnar at f4

 

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Comments ?

[jmahto]

Looks same to me (except different DOF).

[luigi bertolotti]

Looks same to me (except different DOF).

… And that's a good reward for the Sonnar, which is around 50 years older…

[jmahto]

… And that's a good reward for the Sonnar, which is around 50 years older…

It does seem like that on small sized pic, however pixel peeping may tilt it in 90 macro elmar M's favor.

 

This flower pic is from my 90 macro elmar M at MFD (focused using LV). 

(Note: The lens information is missing in EXIF since my lens was not coded at that time and I forgot to manually select it The file name is also misleading. The shot is from 90 macro elmar M on M240).

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The 1:1 zoom with NO sharpening is below.

Edited June 3, 2018 by jmahto

[jmahto]

...and if you add macro capability then it shines on its own with extension. This crop shows strand of hair against closeup of my Dad's watch.

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