Guest VVJ Posted April 4, 2018 Share #61 Posted April 4, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) As a former TL2 owner, now a CL owner, I don't get the anti comments about the TL2 either. I still deeply regret the loss of the TL2's fast and intuitive interface and cool modern design. My head says CL (for the built-in EVF and faster AF) but my heart still says TL2. I can well understand the continued attraction of the TL2 and I hope Leica continue to make it as a statement that they can be forward looking, not just retro. If they redesigned the CL with the style philosophy of the TL2 and added the TL2's interface, then the TL2 would be in trouble. +1. And I am not negative at all about the TL2... I own one and I like it a lot but I also want Leica to fix its AF. The fact remains that the AF of the TL2 is mediocre and the AF of the CL (which came out only 4 months later) much better and I am just asking one question. If Leica is so committed to the TL and if they like to use it so much for their marketing (see also interview Kaufman with Kevin Raber about how innovative the T was) why don't they fix it? Does that really need to take another 3-4 years? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 4, 2018 Posted April 4, 2018 Hi Guest VVJ, Take a look here SL2 might be on it's way this year?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BernardC Posted April 4, 2018 Share #62 Posted April 4, 2018 As image quality produced by full-frame sensors has improved it seems to me that any medium format system has to go big or go home. A 50 or even 75 mp sensor on the S will soon be obsolete Some people assume that, because the S is medium format, it should be exactly like a PhaseOne or Hasselblad MF SLR: heavy on the megapixels and on the arm muscles. The reality is that Leica chose to go after a different MF market: fashion/event/environmental portraiture. Those markets don't want or need more pixels. They want speed, agility (same size as a 5D with booster!), and lenses that can handle adverse lighting with ease. It's still the fastest medium format camera on the market, the one with the best viewfinder, and the only one that I would trust in a torrential downpour (been there, done that, wiped-off the camera and kept shooting). I doubt that Leica will drop their current market, and start competing in the (very limited) high-megapixel market. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 4, 2018 Share #63 Posted April 4, 2018 Some people assume that, because the S is medium format, it should be exactly like a PhaseOne or Hasselblad MF SLR: heavy on the megapixels and on the arm muscles. The reality is that Leica chose to go after a different MF market: fashion/event/environmental portraiture. Those markets don't want or need more pixels. They want speed, agility (same size as a 5D with booster!), and lenses that can handle adverse lighting with ease. It's still the fastest medium format camera on the market, the one with the best viewfinder, and the only one that I would trust in a torrential downpour (been there, done that, wiped-off the camera and kept shooting). I doubt that Leica will drop their current market, and start competing in the (very limited) high-megapixel market. I'm not sure where you got that idea. Fashion market wants and needs megapixels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 4, 2018 Share #64 Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) Effective May 1, the US price for the S007 will increase another $1045 to $19,995. That’s on top of a roughly $2k increase not long ago, following the lens AF motor fix. Meanwhile, the SL price has decreased over that period. Not sure what this indicates (other Leica products will also see an increase), but it’s interesting in light of the anticipated June announcement (L-mount opportunity) referenced by Dr. Kaufmann at LuLa. Jeff Edited April 4, 2018 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted April 4, 2018 Share #65 Posted April 4, 2018 Creating space, or moving stock? Seems early for an SL2 to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 4, 2018 Share #66 Posted April 4, 2018 I’n not expecting an SL2, which seems on a 4 year cycle, I.e., 2019. That’s part of the intrigue for me. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eraydinc Posted April 4, 2018 Share #67 Posted April 4, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) 18 megapixels is totally enough for all industry. You don't need more even you want to print picture for building. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 4, 2018 Share #68 Posted April 4, 2018 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted April 4, 2018 Share #69 Posted April 4, 2018 The price increase seems to be US-only for now. Not sure we should be reading tea leaves to find any secret meaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted April 4, 2018 Share #70 Posted April 4, 2018 I'm not sure where you got that idea. Fashion market wants and needs megapixels. From fashion photographers. Too much detail just means more retouching, and fashion/advertising shots rarely get printed large and viewed up close, unlike landscape/art/etc. Have a look at the lifesize+ point-of-sale posters (something I do to occupy the time when shopping with my wife, or when stuck in the international departures lounge of any airport), they aren't very sharp. Billboards, as we know, only need iPhone-levels of resolution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 4, 2018 Share #71 Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) From fashion photographers. Too much detail just means more retouching, and fashion/advertising shots rarely get printed large and viewed up close, unlike landscape/art/etc. Have a look at the lifesize+ point-of-sale posters (something I do to occupy the time when shopping with my wife, or when stuck in the international departures lounge of any airport), they aren't very sharp. Billboards, as we know, only need iPhone-levels of resolution. Not the case. If the photographer and team know what they are doing then retouching isn't a concern. Many of the photographers dominating fashion are shooting with 100MP Phase backs, amongst other things. There are all different budgets and brands, some will print wall sized point of sale prints from 24MP but i'm not talking about those. No, billboards need more than an iPhone for anything other than an Apple ad. Edited April 4, 2018 by Paul J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted April 4, 2018 Share #72 Posted April 4, 2018 The price increase seems to be US-only for now. Not sure we should be reading tea leaves to find any secret meaning. Interesting though that prices of SL and CL (except for 2 TL-lenses) are not affected by the price increase whereas prices of everything else (S, M, Q, TL2, X-U) are affected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted April 4, 2018 Share #73 Posted April 4, 2018 Some people assume that, because the S is medium format, it should be exactly like a PhaseOne or Hasselblad MF SLR: heavy on the megapixels and on the arm muscles. The reality is that Leica chose to go after a different MF market: fashion/event/environmental portraiture. Those markets don't want or need more pixels. They want speed, agility (same size as a 5D with booster!), and lenses that can handle adverse lighting with ease. It's still the fastest medium format camera on the market, the one with the best viewfinder, and the only one that I would trust in a torrential downpour (been there, done that, wiped-off the camera and kept shooting). I doubt that Leica will drop their current market, and start competing in the (very limited) high-megapixel market. I agree with most of what you say but a price tag of $20K does not seem very realistic for such a camera, and that is putting it quite mildly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 4, 2018 Share #74 Posted April 4, 2018 I agree with most of what you say but a price tag of $20K does not seem very realistic for such a camera, and that is putting it quite mildly... You put it less mildly last year! https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271623-price-increase-s007/ Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted April 4, 2018 Share #75 Posted April 4, 2018 You put it less mildly last year! https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271623-price-increase-s007/ Jeff The price increase was larger last year... Besides that I do believe that there is a market (a small one though) for such a camera, just not at that price point... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2018 Share #76 Posted April 5, 2018 The price increase was larger last year... Besides that I do believe that there is a market (a small one though) for such a camera, just not at that price point... Well, 9 years ago the S2 launched at $23k (and $28 k for the S2-P with sapphire screen and Platinum service). Not that long ago, one could find a new and better S006 for $6.5k from Leica with full warranty. Figure that out based solely on market conditions. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsprow Posted April 5, 2018 Share #77 Posted April 5, 2018 Not the case. If the photographer and team know what they are doing then retouching isn't a concern. Many of the photographers dominating fashion are shooting with 100MP Phase backs, amongst other things. There are all different budgets and brands, some will print wall sized point of sale prints from 24MP but i'm not talking about those. No, billboards need more than an iPhone for anything other than an Apple ad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsprow Posted April 5, 2018 Share #78 Posted April 5, 2018 100% correct. My commercial images, particularly of faces, hands with jewelry etc. are no longer acceptable to the client unless at very high resolution. 50MP makes the grade, 100 preferred. Admitted this is specialized use but you go where the work is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetee1972 Posted April 5, 2018 Share #79 Posted April 5, 2018 100% correct. My commercial images, particularly of faces, hands with jewelry etc. are no longer acceptable to the client unless at very high resolution. 50MP makes the grade, 100 preferred. Admitted this is specialized use but you go where the work is. Is it possible that the client is naive about the need for resolution or is there a justifiable need for it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 5, 2018 Share #80 Posted April 5, 2018 100% correct. My commercial images, particularly of faces, hands with jewelry etc. are no longer acceptable to the client unless at very high resolution. 50MP makes the grade, 100 preferred. Admitted this is specialized use but you go where the work is. Sure. But I can't see Leica going down the 100mp route with S or SL, with all the knock on impacts (processing, power consumption, IS, file size etc), for such specialised uses 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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