Advice about three-year old 75mm Summarit-M

[nlk10010]

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HB: I agree, didn't mean to imply otherwise, certainly not about B&H who (apart from my having very occasionally have to deal with some unpleasant staff) I've always found to be upfront, honest and to display integrity in their dealings with me (as has Adorama). But I've also seen (and been appalled by) the condition in which some people return equipment and wonder if B&H has the time and equipment to inspect a lens that may have been slightly scratched or had the mount scarred, or if when a customer complains of a "bad copy" that claim might be dismissed.

 

As I say, the only real question is whether the lens I ended up with is in new condition and doesn't display any flaws.

 

Thank you for your post. 

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[nlk10010]

It’ll be funny if he gets a sealed one which turns out to be broken.

It wouldn't bother me but I think Leica might be upset about it.

Edited March 5, 2018 by nlk10010

[Herr Barnack]

@nlk10010,

 

B&H is above reproach in my experience.  I have had one time in 20+ years of dealing with them that I ran into a staff person who had a less than professional attitude; I wrote that off to the guy and not the business itself.  For whatever reason, such things happen on occasion.

 

Here's hoping you get your concerns about your lens resolved to your satisfaction. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[Eoin]

I don't know what to say .... but I will comment that it seems plausible that the lens could have been sold and returned.

This seems to be common practice in the USA where returns are a normal part of doing business.

 

I read many accounts on various fora of people ordering an item for trial / approval and returning if it did not meet pre conceived expectations.

 

How a retailer is supposed to declare the fact that it was sold and returned in perfect condition ... I have no idea if that is even required if there is no physical signs of use. I've also read of retailers "open box" discounts, perhaps this is what qualifies a return item to be sold on again.

 

I'm guessing even here in Europe with distance (internet / mail-order) selling where buyers have the right to change their mind within 14 days and return the item for any reason and no justification.

 

I'm sure the item should be in a unused condition and common decency and honesty applies.

 

I'm sure the age of the lens is a "red herring" Supply chain stock and Leica Batch manufacturing could easily explain the 3 year stock cycle, but I am surprised at the time scale. 

 

End of the day, it's your money and if you received something and have concerns, take the action that best suits and eases those concerns, life is too short to be feeling hard done by.

[nlk10010]

Eoin:  I agree, it's not life and death. It's the purchase of a $2000 lens, and I started this thread because all I wanted was some information and education; e.g. was three years old unusual, was there a change in design, do internal components deteriorate (which I realized after-the fact didn't make much sense)? A number of reasonable, intelligent people gave me their opinions on the matter, which I very much appreciated. It's just for some reason this thread went off the rails somewhere in the middle.

 

In the end I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a sealed box. People more knowledgeable about lenses may not care, they can tell for themselves if the piece is new, or damaged, or a "bad copy". I am not quite as adept; regardless, I just wanted a sealed box. B&H was quite accommodating, they unfortunately did not have ANY in stock at the store so I needed instead to order it from their warehouse to be shipped. Although the person with whom I dealt took a look and seemed confident the lens was new, even he couldn't explain why the seal was broken. But it was fine with B&H to exchange it.

 

Now your point about what retailers who accept returns are supposed to do, well, I'm sure B&H and Adorama (and others) can figure that out for themselves. I know for a fact certain returns are resold, and if a customer objects then I assume they will give him a new item (in many cases it's extremely hard to tell). Or they can decide to sell returns as open box based on the premise that a liberal return policy garners them more profit, even allowing for a small loss on the returned goods, than a stricter one would. I don't know, I just read and follow their policies.

 

Thanks for chiming in.

[james.liam]

Now your point about what retailers who accept returns are supposed to do, well, I'm sure B&H and Adorama (and others) can figure that out for themselves. I know for a fact certain returns are resold, and if a customer objects then I assume they will give him a new item (in many cases it's extremely hard to tell). Or they can decide to sell returns as open box based on the premise that a liberal return policy garners them more profit, even allowing for a small loss on the returned goods, than a stricter one would. I don't know, I just read and follow their policies.

 

Thanks for chiming in.

Returns are resold as ‘open box’ or ‘demo’ pieces at discount but with the warranty intact. An official Leica dealer like Ken Hansen, formerly a NY City brick & mortar retailer but now only sells new items by email request or used through eBay, will report that the item was used once or returned, and will have a commensurate price reduction.

[euston]

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Aside from the angst over its age, how are you getting on with the lens?

 

I bought a new one last year which also had a 2015 date on the box. I wasn’t concerned because Leica is said to make its lenses in batches and I wouldn’t expect a Summarit at this focal length to be an especially fast seller.

 

Compared with other lenses with this focal length, the Summarit is small and light. It’s an excellent performer both mechanically and optically. I can’t fault the image quality I’m seeing from it and I’m finding 75mm a more useful focal length than I expected to. All in all, a bit of a bargain in Leica terms!

[albertknappmd]

Just test the lens and if it pleases you, end of story.

Leica makes its lenses in batches and not unheard of to have an old but unused one sold.... 

 

Albert     

[nlk10010]

Aside from the angst over its age, how are you getting on with the lens?

 

I bought a new one last year which also had a 2015 date on the box. I wasn’t concerned because Leica is said to make its lenses in batches and I wouldn’t expect a Summarit at this focal length to be an especially fast seller.

 

Compared with other lenses with this focal length, the Summarit is small and light. It’s an excellent performer both mechanically and optically. I can’t fault the image quality I’m seeing from it and I’m finding 75mm a more useful focal length than I expected to. All in all, a bit of a bargain in Leica terms!

Well, as I mentioned, I only had a brief time with it as B&H did not have another copy in stock so are shipping one to me from their warehouse. I should get it today.

 

However, from my brief time with my original copy, for its focal length it is nice and light and I would not want to carry around a heavier 75mm. The usefulness of the focal length, however and for me at least, depends on a number of factors, not the least of which would be the lenses you already have. For example, if one already has a 50mm then 75mm might be of questionable use since the 50mm can be cropped, just as, I guess 28mm could be cropped to 35mm or 35 to 50. Of course it may be that you have a very specific use for 75mm in which case this lens might have independent value. Regardless, and while I can't say from extensive personal experience (yet) I would think the Summarit's quality would be excellent, although every Leica model has its own specific characteristics.

Edited March 6, 2018 by nlk10010

[nlk10010]

Just test the lens and if it pleases you, end of story.

Leica makes its lenses in batches and not unheard of to have an old but unused one sold.... 

 

Albert     

 

Thanks for this reasonable advice. Actually, I feel exactly the same way. While I might have posted anyway (to become educated in this matter), had the box been sealed I probably would have just tested the lens and moved on. The broken seal, however, stuck in the back of my mind. While it would not have been a big deal to keep the lens it wasn't a big deal to exchange it, either.

Edited March 6, 2018 by nlk10010

[Stein K S]

A little sidestep... I just visited a camera store that do keep quite some new Leica lenses in store on shelf continuously (they do not deal with used lenses). And then I saw a Leica Elmarit-M 24mm 2,8 asph black... NEW! I was really puzzled since in my mind this is an ¨old¨ lens out of production quite some years ago. When double checking, the store confirmed that it was brand new... and when checking the serial number (4078xxx), the production year could seem to be 2008! That is a looong shelf life (and it is still in the store)!

 

I was immediately also tempted since it was seemingly priced with a 2008 price (close to 20% below the current 24 3,8). But since I already own this lens (in chrome ;-), I let it go. If I did not own one already, that long shelf life would, however, not have bothered me ;-)

Edited March 13, 2018 by Stein K S

[wattsy]

I don't know what to say .... but I will comment that it seems plausible that the lens could have been sold and returned.

This seems to be common practice in the USA where returns are a normal part of doing business.

 

I read many accounts on various fora of people ordering an item for trial / approval and returning if it did not meet pre conceived expectations.

 

How a retailer is supposed to declare the fact that it was sold and returned in perfect condition ... I have no idea if that is even required if there is no physical signs of use. I've also read of retailers "open box" discounts, perhaps this is what qualifies a return item to be sold on again.

 

I guess practices change, etc but it wasn't long ago that it seemed perfectly normal to go in to a camera dealer and ask to have a look at a lens, try it on the camera in the shop, etc. I remember doing this numerous times with Leica lenses that the dealer would happily take out of the boxes and then put back when I'd finished. I very much doubt that the product was treated as no longer new or that any subsequent buyer would feel shortchanged.

 

I was immediately also tempted since it was seemingly priced with a 2008 price (close to 20% below the current 24 3,8). But since I already own this lens (in chrome ;-), I let it go. If I did not own one already, that long shelf life would, however, not have bothered me ;-)

 

 

There is a UK Leica dealer that has had a new 24 Elmarit-M in stock for years. Not too long ago the price being asked was only £1299 and I did think of buying it (I used to own one and it is a superb lens) but I just don't have a need for one. The age (shelf life) of the lens is not something that would bother me in the slightest.

Edited March 15, 2018 by wattsy

[Tailwagger]

I don't know what to say .... but I will comment that it seems plausible that the lens could have been sold and returned.

This seems to be common practice in the USA where returns are a normal part of doing business.

 

Fully agree and its why, with Leica in particular, and despite having a very long history with B&H, I now buy all my new Leica gear locally by walking into Leica Boston, shaking the hands with folks who know and recognize me, and saying, you got a....  While it does cost a bit more as one is forced to do their civic duty in terms of paying sales tax, I know that if there is a problem, they will unerring go out of their way to make things right. Which isn't to say that B&H or others wont, but I'm far more comfortable laying out these not insubstantial sums when I have an ongoing relationship with the person I'm handing the cash to.  

[rramesh]

I see a Leica lens a lot like an expensive piece of jewellery.

 

It should have been examined and handled in a store, and it should not affect it's value. After all, before you buy it, wouldn't you want to examine it.

 

Just make sure that it looks good, feels good and it comes with full warranty it it's new.