Speenth Posted July 2, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not sure this is the right forum for a technical query, so please do re-direct me if this question is inappropriate here. I am new to the Leica M8 and still newer to the art of post-processing by computer (you're right - I belong to the distant remembered age of photographic film). For your review and comment I've attached one unadulterated colour image and two monochromes from Glacier National Park in Montana. It is simply impossible to take a bad shot in the park - the place is just too photogenic. However, I've tried to play to both the Leica's strengths and the moodiness of the park, by converting some images to monochrome. As you'll see, I just can't get the monochrome contrast and brightness right. Is there a trick to this or must I keep fiddling about while trying to remember what I did, until I happen on the correct balance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 Hi Speenth, Take a look here Getting B&W contrast right. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stuny Posted July 2, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 2, 2007 Stephen - Welcome to the Forum. I don't know the relative value of theapproach I take to converting to B&W, but, using ACD See (it came with my first digital camera, the Digilux 2) I first desaturate in the color controller, the go into the exposure controler and move the sliders for darks, mids and lights until I see what i like. You've got a very good eye and a wonderful venue. I look forward to seeing more of your images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted July 2, 2007 Stephen - Welcome to the Forum. I don't know the relative value of theapproach I take to converting to B&W, but, using ACD See (it came with my first digital camera, the Digilux 2) I first desaturate in the color controller, the go into the exposure controler and move the sliders for darks, mids and lights until I see what i like. You've got a very good eye and a wonderful venue. I look forward to seeing more of your images. Hi' Stuart and thanks for the tip, which suggests it really is a case of 'fiddling about' - experience being the best teacher. The M8 came with 'Capture One' software, which appears to be straightforward, but I'm frustrated by its tendency to flatten contrast when brightening (as with the image of the cedars), then, on trying to steepen the contrast curve of a brightened image it becomes too stark (the lake and mountains image is a good example of that). There seems to be no middle ground! Perhaps its a foible of Capture One - any users out there with thoughts on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted July 2, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 2, 2007 The answer is .... I don't know but, dang-me, I gotta get me one of them M8s. The tones in the first shot (colour) are, imho, exquisite. (And the tonality of the b&w shots is damn good as well). LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptruman Posted July 2, 2007 Share #5 Posted July 2, 2007 There's some great compositions there that will be worth working on to get the B&W versions looking just great. I use Aperture on my Mac but have also used PhotoShop and Lightroom to work on images. The approach I use is to work on the image in its colour form before doing the conversion to B&W - so adjusting saturation (yes - don't just desaturate as that often results in a very flat B&W image), contrast, crop, etc, etc. Only then do I start to convert to monochrome. Both Aperture and Lightroom make this easy and Aperture emulates a few different filters as presets to speed the process. Inevitably however I end up playing with each of the RGB channels seperately to get the best results. There have been many tutorials for PhotoShop and I would strongly recommend you run through these to familiarise yourself with the "science" and then apply that to whichever toolset you use. Desaturating is by far the quickest way, but rarely (in my view) delivers a very good result. Oh yes, and once you have cracked it be sure to save the actions or save as a preset to save you loads of time in the future! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 2, 2007 Share #6 Posted July 2, 2007 Stephen What software do you have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted July 2, 2007 Share #7 Posted July 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Stephen - Cature One is an excellent application, though it needs a great deal of huan factors engineering work. I suspect that you need to move the dark slider as well as the light slider, and maybe fiddle with the mids. At least, that's what works for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nealf Posted July 2, 2007 Share #8 Posted July 2, 2007 What I do is treat a digital image as I would an analog image. Burning and dodging are two of the most useful tools especially when dealing with B&W. Here is a quick example of what I did with your first shot;[ATTACH]44078[/ATTACH] The first thing I did was to burn in the water so as not to loose detail when I lightened and increased contrast. Then I selectively dodged certain details I wanted to bring out, ie. the log in the background, and some of the foliage. Finally I fine tuned the brightness and contrast until I got what I wanted. You have to play with it until you get the image you want, then save it as its own file keeping the original image for future playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted July 2, 2007 Share #9 Posted July 2, 2007 Stephen - Reread what Neal wrote. This is a masterful conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted July 3, 2007 To Louis, Peter, Andy and Stuart my thanks for the encouragement and kind remarks. Thanks too for the tips and making me realise it is my impatience rather than my competence (limited though that may be) that's getting in the way here! Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted July 3, 2007 What I do is treat a digital image as I would an analog image. Burning and dodging are two of the most useful tools especially when dealing with B&W. Here is a quick example of what I did with your first shot;[ATTACH]44078[/ATTACH]The first thing I did was to burn in the water so as not to loose detail when I lightened and increased contrast. Then I selectively dodged certain details I wanted to bring out, ie. the log in the background, and some of the foliage. Finally I fine tuned the brightness and contrast until I got what I wanted. You have to play with it until you get the image you want, then save it as its own file keeping the original image for future playing. Neal, What can I say? I am stunned and inspired in equal measure! I will set to work to master this software. You've made a tonal masterpiece out of my reduced, uploaded jpeg. What more must I be able to do therefore, with the RAW original? I'll be back when I've got this cracked .... Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted July 3, 2007 Stephen What software do you have? Hi' Andy, I'm using Capture One LE as supplied with the M8. If you, or forum members know of a good source of advice on getting the best from this tool I'd be very grateful. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted July 3, 2007 Share #13 Posted July 3, 2007 Nice captures Stephen. You're not far away of getting there, IMHO. The one with lots of trees is fantastic. Great detail and depth. Maybe you should try the Digital Forum..M8 section for further help. Azzo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted July 3, 2007 Nice captures Stephen.You're not far away of getting there, IMHO. The one with lots of trees is fantastic. Great detail and depth. Maybe you should try the Digital Forum..M8 section for further help. Azzo Hi' Ivan, You're right. I am beginning to find my way around this excellent, professional and friendly forum. In future for technical queries such as I posted here, I'll use the M8 forum. In the meantime, my thanks to you and everyone else who took the time to give me encouragement and inspiration. Attached is my first attempt at further improving the 'trees' image (with a little spurious polychrome enhancement just for fun)! What do people think - am I moving in the right direction? Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted July 3, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 3, 2007 aaaaaaaaaaah ! No Stephen ! Please, not with a beautiful b&w image. ps....ok, if it's just for fun. Azz:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted July 3, 2007 aaaaaaaaaaah ! No Stephen ! Please, not with a beautiful b&w image. ps....ok, if it's just for fun. Azz:) Of course, you're right about the jokey red leaf, but I'm struggling to find a a way to draw the viewer into this image. At first I thought more contrast was the answer, to enhance the three dimensional sense of depth, but still it lacks an eye magnet. I may try lightening the trees most distant from the viewer at the centre of the picture. Technically its OK, emotionally its a bit sterile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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