Thambar-Crazy

[LocalHero1953]

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Link to the Leica Thambar Facebook group:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/132241810801278/

Thanks, that works.

I just have the poor man's Thambar (Hektor 7.3cm f/1.9) but I enjoy being tempted.

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[M9reno]

What a diva!

I mean the lens... 

 Yes - this is it: beautiful!  The Thambar has no rival for portraits.

[LocalHero1953]

I would be interested to see portraits at different apertures, to see how the effect reduces as you stop down.

I can see it in some of the landscapes, but it is less clear how behaviour changes in close up and how the effects progressively change outwards from the centre.

Temptation is tricky: I sold my Apo-Summicron-M 90 with the idea of getting the new Summicron SL90 when it arrives. But I can do most of what the SL90 can do with the SL zooms. The Thambar is just....different.

[wattsy]

Temptation is tricky: I sold my Apo-Summicron-M 90 with the idea of getting the new Summicron SL90 when it arrives. But I can do most of what the SL90 can do with the SL zooms. The Thambar is just....different.

 

 

At the moment this thread is confirming my previously held prejudices about the original Thambar and helping to remove the temptation I have had since the official announcement. I need to test it and see how the Thambar works with film so that I can take the digitalness out of the equation before committing one way or the other but I'm no longer totting up the value of unused gear. Part of what removes the temptation is the thought that this is a lens that may be difficult to move on without a whacking loss if it doesn't fulfil my expectations.

[Susie]

Just a thought, does the new Thambar come with an instruction sheet?  The original one did, and explains how the lens does what it does, and how to get the most from its quirkyness, including using reduction in contrast during development and also the use of  softer gradation films depending on the contrast of the subject. But, of course, back then it was the subject which was the main interest of the photgraph, and not the background bokeh, so the suggestion was to keep the background very muted and quiet.

 

Susie

Edited December 12, 2017 by Susie

[Milan_S]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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Susie can you maybe send the original instruction sheet? Thank you!

One more of the Thambar in LTM mount on the Leica MM (CCD)

 

 

 

 

[Susie]

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It is here on this very forum thanks to M9reno;

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/221928-thambar-instruction-booklet/

 

 

Susie

[lik]

..... idea of getting the new Summicron SL90 when it arrives. But I can do most of what the SL90 can do with the SL zooms. The Thambar is just....different.

 

I had exactly the same idea! And as it turned out - yes - the other lenses are enough. The Thambar is different...  

[Jager]

At the moment this thread is confirming my previously held prejudices about the original Thambar and helping to remove the temptation I have had since the official announcement. I need to test it and see how the Thambar works with film so that I can take the digitalness out of the equation before committing one way or the other but I'm no longer totting up the value of unused gear. Part of what removes the temptation is the thought that this is a lens that may be difficult to move on without a whacking loss if it doesn't fulfil my expectations.

 

Aw, shucks, Ian.  I was hoping you'd keep on doing that all that totting... and end up adding to the riches here!

 

I confess to being more intrigued by this lens than I imagined I would be.  Difficult and mysterious and unpredictable... a diva, indeed!  One of those things that fails far more than it succeeds, but when it does manage to bring all the parts together... woah!

 

Not for the faint of heart.  But, then, what great things in this world are?!

[Susie]

At the moment this thread is confirming my previously held prejudices about the original Thambar and helping to remove the temptation I have had since the official announcement. I need to test it and see how the Thambar works with film so that I can take the digitalness out of the equation before committing one way or the other but I'm no longer totting up the value of unused gear. Part of what removes the temptation is the thought that this is a lens that may be difficult to move on without a whacking loss if it doesn't fulfil my expectations.

Hi Ian,

 

What are your expectations, and what are you hoping to photograph with the lens?

 

Susie

[tsleica]

I would think that this is a lens that you would have to really learn how to use..much study involved...esp in lighting and backrounds..definitely not a snappy happy lens for the beginner..esp at that price..

I want one...who knows..maybe I will spring the dineros....jump de jump...into ...Thamby world...!

[michaelwj]

At the moment this thread is confirming my previously held prejudices about the original Thambar and helping to remove the temptation I have had since the official announcement. I need to test it and see how the Thambar works with film so that I can take the digitalness out of the equation before committing one way or the other but I'm no longer totting up the value of unused gear. Part of what removes the temptation is the thought that this is a lens that may be difficult to move on without a whacking loss if it doesn't fulfil my expectations.

 

 

As for moving it on, I agree. I think there are two potential Thamber users out there. The ones that really want it and will pay for a new one, and the ones who are intrigued and will only pay a fraction of the original price. Once group one is exhausted, I think used models will be selling at ~60% of the new cost before the intrigued group are willing to gamble.

[Wonzo]

As for moving it on, I agree. I think there are two potential Thamber users out there. The ones that really want it and will pay for a new one, and the ones who are intrigued and will only pay a fraction of the original price. Once group one is exhausted, I think used models will be selling at ~60% of the new cost before the intrigued group are willing to gamble.

 

This depends on how many Thambars will be produced this time. It also depends on the development of photography as a whole. No smartphone and 99,999 % of all lenses on the market can`t produce pictures the Thambar does. So in my eyes there will always be a market for this lens and people who value it.

 

 

But all these thoughts are useless anyway if I`m excited about this lens, if I have an idea of how to use it and it I have fun with it.  I won`t waste a minute on how much the value of this lens might decline just as I don`t brood on the decline in value of my car, TV or computer or what else – you name it. We are lucky enough with collecting Leica lenses, which usually keep their value or even increase their value, why not the Thambar ?

[michaelwj]

We are lucky enough with collecting Leica lenses, which usually keep their value or even increase their value, why not the Thambar ?

I sniped the first part, but I think Leica will produce one batch, then continue to periodically produce batches until it's no longer viable. That doesn't influence my previous comments as some will bite at retail and others won't.

 

As for collecting, used lenses generally hold their value, rarely some increase above inflation. But brand new lenses always drop (once production has stabilised). Only then do used prices start to rise with inflation. Sometimes, long after production stops a lens will start to increase above the new price, but very rarely (the 35AA and the 1.2/50 are the only two I can think of). The 50AA for example can be found used at about 70% of the new price. I doubt it will ever go back up above the new price.

 

Back to the topic, I doubt very much that if you bought a new Thambar now that your "investment" would increase. At best, it would be cheap rent, but then the more you use it the higher your chances of damaging it, making it expensive rent.

I also think there a number of collectors who will buy the lens, keep everything unused, and hope that it gains cult status and be sold at a profit in the future. The problem is that the more cult lenses in folklore, the more people who hope for future profits, essentially flooding their own market down the line and ensuring cult status isn't achieved.

Anyway, I'm rambling now.

[wattsy]

What are your expectations, and what are you hoping to photograph with the lens?

 

Susie, I'm not entirely sure but I suppose I'm thinking of bringing a whiff of pictorialism into my landscape photography. I have been hoping that, used at the right aperture (either with or perhaps more likely without the spot filter) and in the right light, this lens might be able to introduce a controlled 'glow' into an otherwise basically sharp photograph. I'm also intrigued about the possibilities for portraiture but that wouldn't be my primary interest. It might be that I'm intrigued by this lens largely because the reintroduction has been met with a mixture of opprobrium and condescension by the orthodox digital photography crowd. I tend to feel that anything that the "sharpness/megapixels/bokeh/IQ" bunch don't like is something worth looking at.

 

At the moment I'm seeing a little bit too much kitsch. I dare say a lens of this nature requires a great deal of experimentation but I'm beginning to wonder if this kind of photography is better served by a larger format than 35mm. Leica at Bruton Place haven't got a demo lens in yet (at least they didn't when I was there recently) but I will certainly try it out with a roll or two of film as much as I can within the limitations of borrowing it for half an hour within strolling distance of the shop. At £5,000, it's far too expensive for me to take a punt on without having tested it on a number of occasions but I remain open minded.

 

But all these thoughts are useless anyway if I`m excited about this lens, if I have an idea of how to use it and it I have fun with it.  I won`t waste a minute on how much the value of this lens might decline just as I don`t brood on the decline in value of my car, TV or computer or what else – you name it. We are lucky enough with collecting Leica lenses, which usually keep their value or even increase their value, why not the Thambar ?

 

 

I take your point and certainly agree with you for Leica gear that is likely to be owned for the long haul. However, for equipment that I am far less sure about, the resale value can be relevant. In my experience, some of the more specialised lenses (like, for instance, the Macro Elmar-M) can be difficult to sell unless sold at a substantial discount to the RRP.

[Keith (M)]

At least nowadays owners of the lens (whether the original or new) can experiment and learn the foibles and benefits of the lens without shooting roll after roll of film! With film, learning how to extract the best results in varying conditions and situations must have required comprehensive note-taking.

[LocalHero1953]

The most successful examples I've seen from this lens have been B&W, possibly because most of the experience with this lens is from the 30s and a bit later. We're still learning how to make this work with digital and colour. The same applies to subject matter: past practice seems to have been almost entirely portraiture. I look forward in particular to seeing colour portraiture with this lens, as well as other subject matter.

[Milan_S]

i agree with LocalHero1953 the lens works best in b&w for portraits and stopped down to f4 or f5.6...

Edited December 14, 2017 by Milan_S

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[Peter H]

I agree that the most pleasing results seem to be those stopped down a fair bit so that the whole frame doesn't appear to be veiled in a way i find visually frustrating.

 

But when it works well, it can produce nice results, though it appears easy to overdo the effect.

 

It seems to be the kind of lens you need to use for quite a long time before you can properly appreciate how it might help you get photos you prefer to those you can make with your other less unusual lenses.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Peter H

[wattsy]

The most successful examples I've seen from this lens have been B&W, possibly because most of the experience with this lens is from the 30s and a bit later. We're still learning how to make this work with digital and colour.

 

 

Yes, I think that is true. However, I have been intrigued by some of the colour (and digital) photographs in Leica's sample gallery. I quite like some (though not all) of the Jolie Luo examples and Huang Jing is always interesting (I first came across his B&W work via the Oskar Barnack Award a few years ago). The two Eolo Perfido portraits, with a whiff of Paolo Rovers, are probably the most obviously successful examples on that page which supports your point about B&W and portraits.

Edited December 14, 2017 by wattsy