M3 DS advance Problem

[sunnylck]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi, 

I have got a M3 DS. I have advanced my the lever twice before I fire the shutter. However, I havent fired the shutter and I needa advance my lever again to "re-tension" the shutter before i fire the shutter. May I ask is it normal or i have got some problem of my camera?

 

Thank you so much. 

 

[TomB_tx]

I have had this happen with a 1955 DS, where you could feel the advance "slip" and it would require 3 or 4 strokes to wind with film in the camera. This was after a CLA, and I was advised that conversion to Single Stroke would be necessary to fix it. After using it for a while this issue went away on its own, and has been fine for years. I wondered if there is a clutch in the wind mechanism that might have been over lubricated?

[Martin B]

Sounds like your M3 also needs CLA. I got mine this year, and after a few weeks of shooting the DS lever was stuck including the shutter. CLA fixed it all. Send it to a third party Leica repair technician/service, not to Leica in NJ if you are located in the US. 

[jerzy]

 I wondered if there is a clutch in the wind mechanism that might have been over lubricated?

Yes, there is. Not directly in wind assy but on a toothwhell connecting wind assy with film transport. Typical case of over lubricating, clutch shall run dry.

[jerzy]

... to be more precise....

it is not clutch, it is rather blocking self-rewind when there is no tension on rewind lever. It is as well built into single stroke. If you wind single stroke you can do it as well in more steps and it shall work as well

If you wind you are advancing film but as well spanning shutter overcoming the tension of springs in both shutter curtains. If you release tension on the rewind lever after first stroke the tension of curtains spring would move the film back. In order to prevent it the toothwheel whch I mentioned has a small piece if metal which after the first stroke goes between the teeth of two neighbour toothwheels and thus preventing film from moving back. In reality, after the first stroke toothwheel is rotating back and moves this piece of metal between the teeth. This is not noticable in properly working camera, it is less than 1mm. 

So either is was over lubricated or this piece of metal (I do not have a better name for it) needs to be replaced/filed (to have sharp edges).

If anyone would need more information with drawing contact me. However to repair it you need to take camera partially apart, you need experience and special tools.

[seneschal]

Jerzy, I have started having this issue today with an M3 DS. Two strokes seems to wind the film on, but a third partial stroke is then require to cock the shutter.

I’m thinking that I can also then keep winding the lever but the film is not being transported, even though the shutter is cocked, although I have not taken enough shots to work out precisely what the fault characteristics are.

Any ideas? I am half way through a roll of HP5 so I would like to finish the roll before I start dismantling anything!

if you have diagrams/photos/technical drawings it would be great so I could have a look and see if I can work out what is going on as I shoot the rest of the film.

kind regards, P

[seneschal]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Jerzy, I have started having this issue today with an M3 DS. Two strokes seems to wind the film on, but a third partial stroke is then require to cock the shutter.

I’m thinking that I can also then keep winding the lever but the film is not being transported, even though the shutter is cocked, although I have not taken enough shots to work out precisely what the fault characteristics are.

Any ideas? I am half way through a roll of HP5 so I would like to finish the roll before I start dismantling anything!

if you have diagrams/photos/technical drawings it would be great so I could have a look and see if I can work out what is going on as I shoot the rest of the film.

kind regards, P

[seneschal]

Jerry, yesterday I shot the rest of the roll. Two strokes followed by a third partial stroke to cock the shutter.

During the two strokes the dots in the rewind knob rotate, leading me to believe the film is being transported.

On the third, partial stroke, the dots do not rotate.

After the shutter is cocked, if I apply pressure to the winding lever, I can still move the lever, it’s stiff but still can be moved. I’m expecting it to be “locked” once the film is wound and the shutter cocked.

However, even though the lever will move, the film is not moved from position and the cocked shutter remains ready to be released and releases normally when the button is pressed.

I tried this numerous times and at the end of the roll got 37 shots, half wind on the 38th, all normal.

Rewind back into the cassette was normal.

The even stranger thing now that the film is removed, is that the symptom of requiring more than two strokes to cock the shutter has now disappeared! With no film present the shutter cocks at the end of the second stroke.

Further, the symptom of still being able to push the lever, after the shutter has cocked, has also disappeared.

The only things that have changed are that now there is not a film running over the toothed roller and there is no film tension between the cassette and the take up spool.

If anyone has drawings or diagrams or ideas to help, I’d be grateful. It is quite strange.

kind regards, P