elwyn Posted June 30, 2017 Share #1 Posted June 30, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) As a Leica newbie I've read and learnt a lot from a number of posts on this site over the last couple of years, but can also see how polarised some peoples opinions can be - so I'm slightly nervous about expressing any opinion. I'm a relatively new to photography too - having switched to photography when my guitar playing fingers got to be too arthritic to play properly anymore, so I sold my guitars and bought an M240 and three nice lenses. I started photography with the M240, because I wanted to understand, enjoy, and take satisfaction in taking photographs, without all the "helpful" additions that some modern cameras have. I really love my new interest and am learning and getting better all the time. However after a while I found my older eyes needed help focussing, especially when using the 0.95 Nocti and the 90mm Cron Lenses (my only other lens - a 28mm Lux was no problem), so after a year or so with the M240 I switched to the SL. Using just my three original M Lenses, I really took to the SL straight away and got to be able to use it quickly and intuitively, with plenty of really nice keepers. However, as many others have commented, compared to the M the SL is heavy, and I noticed I that I wasn't taking it out quite as often as I did my M240. So...I bought the M10, but kept my SL with the intention of selling it on. For the first couple of weeks the M10 seemed everything I was looking for, small, light, easy to use and the improvements in the viewfinder made life a lot easier compared to the M240. I ordered the Visoflex 020 at the same time as I ordered the M10, thinking that would it be useful, but after using it for a while - the fact that I was using a bolt-on EVF on a camera that was supposed to be a rangefinder didn't make sense for me. Though I did like the way the 020 automatically magnified the view using the M lenses though, which is better than having to press the SL's Joystick each time. So, after a few weeks of internal debate, I've now sold my M10 and gone back to my SL, which I now appreciate a lot more now and as I'm still new to photography I'm not yet in a particular photographic niche, so I find the SL so much more flexible for all the types of photography I try do. No, I've never used the video. I still love and miss my M10, which was a great camera and a logical evolutionary progression from the M240, but having tried both cameras side by side, I'm more than happy to take the negatives of the increased weight of the SL for the built-in EVF, and the flexibility that it gives me. Just my relatively inexperienced, but honest views Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 Hi elwyn, Take a look here SL or switch to M10?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thighslapper Posted June 30, 2017 Share #2 Posted June 30, 2017 You have expressed very clearly the fundamental criteria for choosing a camera ..... one that does what YOU want in the way YOU like ........ This forum is full of people (yes, you know I'm talking about ...) who constantly slag off other peoples choice of camera ...... and particularly the SL and its lenses. I have no issue with anyone expressing opinions/comparisons after using the relevant equipment for a reasonable period under 'normal' conditions ...... but no time at all for armchair critics who base their opinions on what they read or a two minute play in a camera shop. I have multiple Leicas and I keep coming back to the SL as the one camera that does 95% of what I want in a reliable and painless way. I am happy to live with its 'faults' as it keeps on churning out great imagery, and importantly it delivers on the SD card exactly what my minds eye sees in the viewfinder. I suspect in time I will liquidate my unused gear and update to an M10 to keep my compact rangefinder option alive ...... but will I use it much ..... ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phongph Posted June 30, 2017 Share #3 Posted June 30, 2017 Hi! I have got SL 601 & SL 24-90 about 1 year. I have also just got M10 with M Apo 50 & M Lux 75! I am happy with both SL 601 and M10! Have a nice day! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Leica Posted June 30, 2017 Share #4 Posted June 30, 2017 Hi! I have got SL 601 & SL 24-90 about 1 year. I have also just got M10 with M Apo 50 & M Lux 75! I am happy with both SL 601 and M10! Have a nice day! Thanks! Question: why M10 when you have SL? is it just for Apo 50 and Lux 75? Both could be used with the SL too... so again.... why M10? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted June 30, 2017 Share #5 Posted June 30, 2017 I have both the M240 and SL. To me both systems compliment each other so I'm more than happy to keep both. There are times the AF & zooms of SL come really handy but there are also many instances I miss the manual focus on a range finder romance. While I'm already mentally prepared for the next SL purchase, I'm lately feeling really itchy to replace my M240 with a sliver M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 30, 2017 Share #6 Posted June 30, 2017 My two-camera kit is the SL and the M-D. Opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of capabilities ... they complement each other beautifully. Many people have been slagging the SL since it was announced. It has been rather strange, I never quite fathomed all the bile. For me, it is the advanced, modern system camera that I waited over a decade for. The M-D, on the other hand, is exactly what I wanted in a digital M: simple and easy, no frills; the minimum intrusion and interposition between my eye and my subject. Perhaps Leica made them both just for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phongph Posted June 30, 2017 Share #7 Posted June 30, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Question: why M10 when you have SL? is it just for Apo 50 and Lux 75? Both could be used with the SL too... so again.... why M10?Hi!SL and M10 compliment together! My SL is for AF shooting of event, my children, activity ... but some heavy! My M10 is for street life, portrait ... lighter and some tidy! Sometime, I use both SL and M10 for tourist with my family so that I will not need to change the lens! Have a good day! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2017 Share #8 Posted June 30, 2017 Question: why M10 when you have SL? is it just for Apo 50 and Lux 75? Both could be used with the SL too... so again.... why M10?The difference between the M cameras and the SL is not in the lenses, it is in the way one takes photographs. They could not be more different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted June 30, 2017 Share #9 Posted June 30, 2017 However, as many others have commented, compared to the M the SL is heavy, and I noticed I that I wasn't taking it out quite as often as I did my M240. If you are shooting SL glass yes... If you are shooting M lenses though the weight difference of the bodies is IMO negligible: 847g versus 660g or 187g... I agree that the way of taking pictures is very different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted June 30, 2017 Share #10 Posted June 30, 2017 M and SL are so different that it is not even possible to choose one against another. It is like comparing a fine katana sword to a laser gun. That being said, you only will be able to appreciate SL to its fullest when you get at least 24-90 Vario-Elmarit-SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 30, 2017 Share #11 Posted June 30, 2017 My two-camera kit is the SL and the M-D. Opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of capabilities ... they complement each other beautifully. Many people have been slagging the SL since it was announced. It has been rather strange, I never quite fathomed all the bile. For me, it is the advanced, modern system camera that I waited over a decade for. The M-D, on the other hand, is exactly what I wanted in a digital M: simple and easy, no frills; the minimum intrusion and interposition between my eye and my subject. Perhaps Leica made them both just for me. I'd be very interested in an M10 M-D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 30, 2017 Share #12 Posted June 30, 2017 My two-camera kit is the SL and the M-D. Opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of capabilities ... they complement each other beautifully. Many people have been slagging the SL since it was announced. It has been rather strange, I never quite fathomed all the bile. For me, it is the advanced, modern system camera that I waited over a decade for. The M-D, on the other hand, is exactly what I wanted in a digital M: simple and easy, no frills; the minimum intrusion and interposition between my eye and my subject. Perhaps Leica made them both just for me. I remember giving all the reasons why it didn't appeal to me, whilst acknowledging its qualities as did many others. Some opinions were stated quite strongly by all sides, but I don't recall much bile. I admit I was more than half wrong about the effect it would have on the next M camera, which was a large source of my concern about it. I expected the M10 (which I didn't expect would be called that) would be more of a traditionalists' camera, whereas in my opinion it has turned out to be the most advanced Leica in some ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 30, 2017 Share #13 Posted June 30, 2017 I'd be very interested in an M10 M-D. I'd be more interested in an updated M-D with the M10 sensor and viewfinder optics. Body-wise, I prefer the feel of the M-D to the feel of the M10, the ISO setting on the M-D, etc. I remember giving all the reasons why it didn't appeal to me, whilst acknowledging its qualities as did many others. Some opinions were stated quite strongly by all sides, but I don't recall much bile. I admit I was more than half wrong about the effect it would have on the next M camera, which was a large source of my concern about it. I expected the M10 (which I didn't expect would be called that) would be more of a traditionalists' camera, whereas in my opinion it has turned out to be the most advanced Leica in some ways. Of course, I wasn't speaking specifically about you, Peter. I participate in about eight different camera forums, about six of which are much broader spectrum than this one. The persistent negativity regarding the SL has been going on since day one and has not really abated. It's a mystery to me how these commenters persist in slagging the camera when the vast majority of them have either only made ten snaps in a store or have never really touched the camera at all. Even some of the "professional reviewers" have had their crack at it. Meanwhile, I've had mine since the day it was released, have seen a massive number of brilliant results from it, and have had exactly zero problems with it. Best—read 'most versatile, best performing, etc—digital camera I've owned. I've been selling off the others, other than the M, because I simply don't need them any more. The only other digital camera I have any interest in is the X1D, and that's purely as a niche complement to the M/SL if I really really feel it will do me well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted June 30, 2017 Share #14 Posted June 30, 2017 Many people have been slagging the SL since it was announced. It has been rather strange, I never quite fathomed all the bile. Man, don't you remember the fable about a fox and grapes? He was bashing the grapes for not being ripe because he could not reach high enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted June 30, 2017 Share #15 Posted June 30, 2017 Man, don't you remember the fable about a fox and grapes? He was bashing the grapes for not being ripe because he could not reach high enough well this fox got his grapes and they really aren't ripe (where is the 50mm??) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistairm Posted June 30, 2017 Share #16 Posted June 30, 2017 Both of these cameras (like almost all cameras) can take brilliant photos. As said above, it comes down to the way in which you prefer take them, rather than the final output. If you need the more versatile, more consistent camera then the SL "wins" hands down. It is brilliant. It is also largely a computer interface, like most modern cameras. Although with manual lenses you can still feel very engaged, the fact is that the utterly brilliant EVF tends to dominate the process... easy to focus and WYSIWYG exposure. If you crave physical engagement in the photographic process and a camera that is as close to the old-fashioned mechanical experience as you can get in the digital era, with some metering peccadilloes but ultimately capable of utterly enthralling results (albeit with a more limited range of lenses) then the M10 "wins" hand down. It is like a Singer restored Porsche... all the nostalgia and engagement but with enough of the good bits (great sensor, better rangefinder, fast) that you don't miss the genuine vintage article. Undoubtedly, the SL is the "better" camera in objective terms. It can use just about any Leica lens ever made, is fast, can autofocus, is weather sealed and is very apt to customisation. But at the end of the day it is defined by the EVF. Whereas the M10 is limited in its own ways, but has a rangefinder and can also be used with an accessory EVF when required. They are both awesome. The continual discussion about "which one is better" is interesting, but largely pointless as ultimately it is a question of which process you prefer, as both produce stellar images. For my use, when I want the shot and am there to photograph, whether it be sport, kids, people in motion, an event (wedding, birthday party), macro or whatever else and size isn't an issue, the SL is the camera I can rely on. But when I just want to take great photos and blend in and not be the dude with the big dorky camera, the M does the job, the way it has been doing so for people for the last 50 years, and the lenses are so good I still end up with photos that put a grin on my face and wipe the floor with any other system short of medium format. The S system may have the best IQ Leica makes. The SL may be the most versatile system. But the M system remains the jewel in the crown... so much quality in such a small and discreet package. Leica products are at a premium price point. I suspect most of us on here have a range of other hobbies... do you enjoy playing your modern guitar or your vintage one? Do you enjoy driving your new Porsche with a PDK or your air cooled manual one? Do you enjoy shooting your SL or your M? These are deeply personal choices. To the OP - if you are sticking with one body, I fully appreciate why you've kept the SL but miss the M10. I would be in the same boat as you and would have made the same choice. Personally, my fervent hope is that Leica sells as many of both bodies as it can make and that it continues to develop great lenses for both systems and that we continue to be able to agonise over which system to choose... or for those of us in lucky periods of our lives, to enjoy both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted July 1, 2017 Share #17 Posted July 1, 2017 well this fox got his grapes and they really aren't ripe (where is the 50mm??) Hmmm... https://www.dpreview.com/products/leica/lenses/leica_sl_50_1p4_asph What am I missing? ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted July 1, 2017 Share #18 Posted July 1, 2017 Hmmm... https://www.dpreview.com/products/leica/lenses/leica_sl_50_1p4_asph What am I missing? ) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1283367-REG/leica_11180_summilux_sl_50mm_f_1_4_asph.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 1, 2017 Share #19 Posted July 1, 2017 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1283367-REG/leica_11180_summilux_sl_50mm_f_1_4_asph.html So buy from someone else who has it in stock. B&H Photo still doesn't have the Arca-Swiss p0 Hybrid even listed, but they've been out for several months and are easily available from other dealers. These things may both be a little thin on the ground just yet, but they're certainly available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted July 2, 2017 Share #20 Posted July 2, 2017 So buy from someone else who has it in stock. B&H Photo still doesn't have the Arca-Swiss p0 Hybrid even listed, but they've been out for several months and are easily available from other dealers. These things may both be a little thin on the ground just yet, but they're certainly available. find me a retailer that has it in stock (ebay doesn't count) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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