Which Digital Leica to Get (Selling my M6's...new to digital Leica)?

[harleybob]

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I went through something similar.  Have an M4, and now M10.  Had the digital M type 262 before the M10.  I would recommend that you get the M10 if at all possible.  I believe it is a significant improvement over all the previous digital M's.  However, if you really want to get an earlier digital M in the interim, I would suggest the M Type 262 (not the MD version).  I believe it will meet most of your requirements.  No video, but a LCD to review images, etc.  

Why not the MD? I did not even know it existed till yesterday and thought...wow...that is the one. The biggest issue I have since the the digital revolution is all the chimping. I was a professional photojournalist (retired) and always felt "not knowing" made you push and work harder always afraid

you might have been out of focus etc. Of course my 1st choice now would be an M10 with no screen. I want a digital Leica that most replicates what I had with my M6TTL and one of the no screen versions seems to make the most sense. 

I think I am a better photographer by not knowing what I have and by not being distracted by my little slide show.

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[Denys]

Sounds like you've answered your own question! Depending on how you held your M6, you may want to consider one of those 'thumbs up" type of object..for the true film-like body experience. :-)

[adan]

I was a professional photojournalist (retired) and always felt "not knowing" made you push and work harder always afraid you might have been out of focus etc. .... I think I am a better photographer by not knowing what I have and by not being distracted by my little slide show.

 

"Shooting scared" - been there, done that, and we do get better pictures if we don't know if we got "it" yet - or assume we haven't. I shot one remote project for 3 months before developing any film. Fortunately, with 4 different cameras, so if one of them had thrown a gear halfway throught, I would have been covered.

 

But - the screen on the back does have other uses than just chimping pictures. The firmware can always get a hiccup, and change settings on you - disappointing to find out half your shots were jpg and half were RAW, of half B&W and half color, or have the battery run out or SD card fill up just as things are getting good. (Alas, even the M-D and M10 do not have analog frame counters, and ARE totally battery-dependent).

 

And there's that lens-coding thing we mentioned earlier. Can't select a specific wide lens in the menus, if there are no menus.

[harleybob]

"Shooting scared" - been there, done that, and we do get better pictures if we don't know if we got "it" yet - or assume we haven't. I shot one remote project for 3 months before developing any film. Fortunately, with 4 different cameras, so if one of them had thrown a gear halfway throught, I would have been covered.

 

But - the screen on the back does have other uses than just chimping pictures. The firmware can always get a hiccup, and change settings on you - disappointing to find out half your shots were jpg and half were RAW, of half B&W and half color, or have the battery run out or SD card fill up just as things are getting good. (Alas, even the M-D and M10 do not have analog frame counters, and ARE totally battery-dependent).

 

And there's that lens-coding thing we mentioned earlier. Can't select a specific wide lens in the menus, if there are no menus.

Since I don't have a digital Leica yet, what exactly does the coding tell the camera and how is that dealt with in the MD that is different? Are not the frame lines adjusted mechanically by the cams on the lens mount?

[Ko.Fe.]

Nah... Coding was the only somewhat issue with M8. Now, I think, even M9 with current firmware will recognize your Leica made lenses and deal with corners processing of UWA lens. 28 and 50 was never problem. Including frames  

 

The film experience with any digital M Leica is possible simply by selecting fixed ISO and using manually selected shutter speeds. Leica will tell you about exposure, just like M6 does.  

M-D is really close to M6, because of the same ISO dial placement. And here is no screen to brake and scratch as well. To me this is the main attraction of M-D, film or not.

[adan]

Since I don't have a digital Leica yet, what exactly does the coding tell the camera and how is that dealt with in the MD that is different? Are not the frame lines adjusted mechanically by the cams on the lens mount?

 

The mechanically-set frameline system is "insufficient data" for exact lens identification. Put your 21mm on your M6 and look through the camera's built-in finder. You will see both 28mm and 90mm frames. Without some additional means of identifying your lens focal length to a digital M's electronics, the camera cannot tell a 21 from a 28 from a 90.

 

In fact, unless the lens is 6-bit coded, the digital-M camera electronics ignore the frameline system altogether and simply assume a generic 50mm lens is mounted. (You get the right lines, mechanically - but the image is recorded as "focal length ???????")

 

The coding identifies the exact focal length - and the lens model (21 Elmarit-M, 21 Elmarit ASPH, 21 Summilux, 21 Super-Elmar, 28 Summicron, 90mm Tele-Elmarit-M, 90mm APO-Summicron ASPH....etc.) much more precisely than the mechanical system can.

 

And you need that extra precision for digital M color pictures. Because your wide-angle lenses will produce color stains on a digital sensor (see image). Unless you precisely ID which focal length and era of lens is used. In which case the camera electronics can say "Aha! Taken with a 21mm Elmarit-M ASPH" - and automatically digitally remove the color stains as the picture is taken. Based on the "known" pattern of stains for each specific model of lens.

 

The alternative to 6-bit coding is that you can use the camera's menu to manually ID the lens in use. If your camera has a rear LCD. Which rules out the MD.

 

Ko.Fe. is mistaken - full-frame digital Leicas need 6-bit coding, or lens ID manually entered in the menus, for wide-angle color corrections at least as much as the cropped M8. If not more so.

 

Really simply - below is a 21mm Elmarit picture taken with an M9 without the right corrections that ID-ing the lens provides. If you can live with that amount of pink and blue/green stain on the sides, in every one of your 21mm and (slightly less so) 28mm pictures, then you can use an MD with uncoded wideangle lenses.

 

If you don't like that effect, you must either 1) send you 21 and 28 lenses to Leica for physical surgery to add the 6-bit coding marks, or 2) use a camera (not the MD) where you can use the menus to correctly ID the lens.

 

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[harleybob]

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adan,

Thank you very very much for this detailed explanation and assessment...sounds like if I go for the MD I will definitely go for the coding on my wide lenses. That will go for whichever body I get, so I do not have to do it manually if I have a menu version. 

The mechanically-set frameline system is "insufficient data" for exact lens identification. Put your 21mm on your M6 and look through the camera's built-in finder. You will see both 28mm and 90mm frames. Without some additional means of identifying your lens focal length to a digital M's electronics, the camera cannot tell a 21 from a 28 from a 90.

 

In fact, unless the lens is 6-bit coded, the digital-M camera electronics ignore the frameline system altogether and simply assume a generic 50mm lens is mounted. (You get the right lines, mechanically - but the image is recorded as "focal length ???????")

 

The coding identifies the exact focal length - and the lens model (21 Elmarit-M, 21 Elmarit ASPH, 21 Summilux, 21 Super-Elmar, 28 Summicron, 90mm Tele-Elmarit-M, 90mm APO-Summicron ASPH....etc.) much more precisely than the mechanical system can.

 

And you need that extra precision for digital M color pictures. Because your wide-angle lenses will produce color stains on a digital sensor (see image). Unless you precisely ID which focal length and era of lens is used. In which case the camera electronics can say "Aha! Taken with a 21mm Elmarit-M ASPH" - and automatically digitally remove the color stains as the picture is taken. Based on the "known" pattern of stains for each specific model of lens.

 

The alternative to 6-bit coding is that you can use the camera's menu to manually ID the lens in use. If your camera has a rear LCD. Which rules out the MD.

 

Ko.Fe. is mistaken - full-frame digital Leicas need 6-bit coding, or lens ID manually entered in the menus, for wide-angle color corrections at least as much as the cropped M8. If not more so.

 

Really simply - below is a 21mm Elmarit picture taken with an M9 without the right corrections that ID-ing the lens provides. If you can live with that amount of pink and blue/green stain on the sides, in every one of your 21mm and (slightly less so) 28mm pictures, then you can use an MD with uncoded wideangle lenses.

 

If you don't like that effect, you must either 1) send you 21 and 28 lenses to Leica for physical surgery to add the 6-bit coding marks, or 2) use a camera (not the MD) where you can use the menus to correctly ID the lens.

 

colorvig.jpg

[jaapv]

With one addition, Andy.

You don't  HAVE to send your lens to Leica for coding, it is a relatively simple operation that is offered by a number of third parties, or can be done in DIY, ranging from fitting a coded mount from eBay, through using a Dremel to adding the code with a Sharpie.

 

The advantage of Leica doing the job is that the lens will be checked whether the focus is precise enough for a digital camera. and for other faults at the same time.

Drawbacks are that it may take some time and that it is a bit pricey.

[tbonanno]

Why not the MD? I did not even know it existed till yesterday and thought...wow...that is the one. The biggest issue I have since the the digital revolution is all the chimping. I was a professional photojournalist (retired) and always felt "not knowing" made you push and work harder always afraid

you might have been out of focus etc. Of course my 1st choice now would be an M10 with no screen. I want a digital Leica that most replicates what I had with my M6TTL and one of the no screen versions seems to make the most sense. 

I think I am a better photographer by not knowing what I have and by not being distracted by my little slide show.

 

Oh, I thought you mentioned you wanted to be able to review the images.. I know you were not interested in video.  Yes, if you do not need a rear screen to review, the MD 262 would be the one.  It has been very well received.

[IkarusJohn]

The MD would be closest to your needs (I agree with your comments on chimping). In practical terms, this means white balance is fixed on auto and you only take raw images. There are effectively no settings to make, except ISO, focus, aperture and shutter speed (you also get exposure compensation, if you're using Auto anything). I had an M Edition 60 and loved it - reluctantly sold it when rationalising my kit.

 

But, bear in mind that the MD is based on the M(240) - it doesn't have the new sensor and viewfinder of the M10 and it's thicker. If it were me, I'd get the M10.

 

I'm using the SL for my M lenses (with a version 1 Monochrom and M-A), and really enjoying that. In the future, I might consider an MD version of the M10 - I think that version suits the optical rangefinder based M camera particularly well.

 

Cheers

John

 

PS - I agree with Andy about lenses. Send them to Leica for servicing and coding.