DRabbit Posted June 20, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've posted this in a couple of Leica forums because I'm desperate to hear from owners of this lens... excuse the redundance if you've already seen it on other sites The Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 Biogon... Who uses it? What's your experience with it been? Do you use IR filters? Is your Zeiss 21mm coded? If so, who coded it? Did you change the bayonet on it first? If you use IR filters and it's NOT coded, is there a lot of cyan shift? Anyone want to share some photos with this lens? Inquiring minds want to know.... hehehe Amy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Hi DRabbit, Take a look here Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 Biogon on the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ck1 Posted June 20, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 20, 2007 A really beautiful lens, showing many of the characteristics of the 21mm Zeiss Biogon for the G1/G2 rangefinder (one of the best 35mm wide angle lenses I have ever used). If I had to choose between the Zeiss or the Leica equivalent purely on image grounds, I would probably go with Zeiss (but it does have a characteristic Zeiss look). Can't seem to code mine using black marker pen, but with the excellent new Cornerfix software, this isn't really a problem any more. I have a strong feeling that the Cornerfix software now surpasses in quality the internal corrections used in the M8 with a coded lens. Below, taken with a Lieca uv/ir filter and then run through Cornerfix Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27101-zeiss-21mm-f28-biogon-on-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=286163'>More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted June 20, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 20, 2007 I second that, It's a fantastic lens. The image quality is great and the sharpness is out of this world. The only drawbacks to me are it's size, and that it's a 2.8 and not a 2. _mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRabbit Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted June 20, 2007 A really beautiful lens, showing many of the characteristics of the 21mm Zeiss Biogon for the G1/G2 rangefinder (one of the best 35mm wide angle lenses I have ever used). If I had to choose between the Zeiss or the Leica equivalent purely on image grounds, I would probably go with Zeiss (but it does have a characteristic Zeiss look). Can't seem to code mine using black marker pen, but with the excellent new Cornerfix software, this isn't really a problem any more. I have a strong feeling that the Cornerfix software now surpasses in quality the internal corrections used in the M8 with a coded lens. Below, taken with a Lieca uv/ir filter and then run through Cornerfix Cornerfix is only for windows though, right? I use a Mac (though shortly I'll be buying a new mac that ran run windows through parallels, that isn't the case right now). Someone said there was a plugin called Panarama something... that would also fix cyan shifting... ??? Thanks for the photo... it's awesome... Do you have an example of what it looked like before the fix? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 20, 2007 Share #5 Posted June 20, 2007 Sure - here is the version before Cornerfix applied. Panotools is the other software... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27101-zeiss-21mm-f28-biogon-on-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=286267'>More sharing options...
DRabbit Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted June 20, 2007 Okay, let me say this... I'm not sure I would have noticed the cyan shift without it being pointed out. I'm not at all saying it isn't noticeable, and I'm sure it may be more noticeable depending on the shot itself, but I actually expected it to be a lot worse. What I'm saying is that had I stumbled across your shot in a gallery somewhere on the net, I don't think it would have jumped out at me as having cyan corners. Of course, the fixed version does look nicer. Would you call this "typical" on the Zeiss 21? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 20, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) The cyan shift is much more noticeable if there is any light colour / white in the picture....snow is a real problem. Sky hides it very well. All Zeiss lenses have a particular "fingerprint" but you really have to see prints to see the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 20, 2007 It would be wise to subscribe to Welcome to ReidReviews There you will find excellent information on that lens (and a whole lot more. I own one and it is an excellent lens. I had to change the mount to code it correctly but that is straightforward. I believe John Milich offers a service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRabbit Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted June 21, 2007 Jaap, Yeah, I subscribed to ReidReviews already. I like to hear and see real-world results from different people though. I know there are folks (like yourself) who had the lens' bayonet changed and then coded, but I then there's those who haven't had it coded at all and just shoot with it (like ck1 above). You got people who shoot with IR cut filters and people who don't. I want to see and hear from everyone. The problem with the coding on this particular lens seems to be you can't do it yourself because you have to get the bayonet changed to the 28mm one. I've yet to find where to buy one. If I can get past that hurdle, I know it has to go to Milich for the "etching" but then it has to go somehwere else with the lens to actually get the bayonet switched. If someone wants to give me the step-by-step with contact info, that would be good. Still want to hear, and see examples from other Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 users... Amy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoteca Posted June 21, 2007 Share #10 Posted June 21, 2007 Jaap, Yeah, I subscribed to ReidReviews already. I like to hear and see real-world results from different people though. I know there are folks (like yourself) who had the lens' bayonet changed and then coded, but I then there's those who haven't had it coded at all and just shoot with it (like ck1 above). You got people who shoot with IR cut filters and people who don't. I want to see and hear from everyone. The problem with the coding on this particular lens seems to be you can't do it yourself because you have to get the bayonet changed to the 28mm one. I've yet to find where to buy one. If I can get past that hurdle, I know it has to go to Milich for the "etching" but then it has to go somehwere else with the lens to actually get the bayonet switched. If someone wants to give me the step-by-step with contact info, that would be good. Still want to hear, and see examples from other Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 users... Amy It is easy: you write to Zeiss and order the bayonet. It will be delivered in 2 days. With a warning, that if you change it yourself, you will loose warranty. Then you get your ring and can try to code it yourself as among others JAAP described. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRabbit Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted June 21, 2007 It is easy: you write to Zeiss and order the bayonet. It will be delivered in 2 days. With a warning, that if you change it yourself, you will loose warranty. Then you get your ring and can try to code it yourself as among others JAAP described. You've described nothing to me I didn't already know, other than ordering the bayonet from Zeiss directly (I have already written to them and haven't heard back yet). I know about the warning and that is should be done by someone who knows what the h* they're doing... but WHO and how do I contact them? Milich does the coding if I want, but WHO changes the bayonet on the lens? Does he do that too or is it someone else? Someone somewhere said "send it to Don Goldberg" - well who's he and how do I contact him? It IS a little frustrating... No one has yet made it simple other than to say "hey it's easy, just code it yourself with a Sharpie". Well, I didn't know (at first) the Bayonet needed changing... and how to change the bayonet? How to code it? Where's the instructions? (yes I already found the magic marker solution and template - but then some say not to do it, and some say it's safe to do, and it took me a while to find the info that let me know coding alone doesn't work on the 21 Zeiss). Should I do it myself or send it out? And is all this overkill because the lens will perform great without any modification? I appreciate the fact I can find lots of info in these forums and other Leica forums, but there is no one place that gives it to you all, and piecing it all together isn't always easy. The fact I've figured THIS much out in 24 hours is a lot! Hence why I started this post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brycepincham Posted June 21, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 21, 2007 I have the Zeiss 21mm, I ordered the 28mm mount from Zeiss, used a sharpie to code it as a Leica 21mm and started using it with the Leica IR filter. I found the cameras corrections are too strong, obviously the Zeiss vignettes less than the Leica lens, so I now get magenta corners which is really annoying on blue sky. I have gone back to using this lens uncoded without the filter, for landscapes it is great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRabbit Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted June 21, 2007 Thanks Bryce... I'd love to see some examples if you'd like to share 'm. Did you put the 28mm bayonet on yourself? When you use it without the filter, do you find you run into the IR problem a lot - and when you do run into it, how are you fixing it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brycepincham Posted June 21, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 21, 2007 yes, i changed the lens mount without any problems, broke a couple of jewelers screwdrivers trying to undo the screws though. Just used some pliers on the screwdriver to help get it moving. I have only had problems not using the IR filters when there are people in the pictures, but I really just use this lens for landscapes. The first time I coded this lens, I coded it as a Leica 21mm ASPH, the corners of my pictures were quite pink with the IR filter. I then re-coded the lens as the other Leica Elmarit 21mm non ASPH version. This worked better, not so much correction happening, but still a touch magenta in the corners. Anyone else had this problem and found a more suitable lens code??? I will try and post some pic's at some stage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted June 21, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 21, 2007 if you can get a flange to me, I can put in the recesses with a two day turnaround. any camera repair shop should be able to swap the flanges. Zeiss uses loctite on the screw threads, which softens with heat, like from the tip of a soldering iron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRabbit Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted June 21, 2007 Thanks Bryce -- I should be getting the lens and camera tomorrow (hopefully, if that slippery UPS guys doesn't come at just the wrong time when I'm not here! LOL) if you can get a flange to me, I can put in the recesses with a two day turnaround. any camera repair shop should be able to swap the flanges. Zeiss uses loctite on the screw threads, which softens with heat, like from the tip of a soldering iron. Thanks John... I still have to get the bayonet from Zeiss... and hey, I still have to get the lens! LOL... once I get it I'll have a better idea of what I want and need to do, and in the meantime I'll wait for Zeiss to get back to me on buying the bayonet. I have your e-mail address on a virtual post-it already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted June 21, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 21, 2007 Hi Amy, I saw your posts over on DPR and congratulations on becoming a Leica M8 user. I am sure you will love the camera instantly! Yesterday I purchased a Summicron 35 having thought long and hard about the Zeiss Biogon. I have no qualms about the performance of either lens. But as you go for wider lenses then the problems with the corners increase. You can of course change mounts, simply hand code, send off mounts for milling, use cornerfix etc. All of these issues can be immediately resolved by simply using a Leica lens. Now we all know that there is a rather hefty cost implication there. But if you don't get a Leica lens, wont you simply yearn after one and eventually succumb? That has been my experience and in the longer term it costs more. Did you read Guy Mancuso's post on the assembly of lenses at Solms? We read a lot on this forum about members adjusting their rangfinders for more critical focus. I am not saying you will experience a mis-focus with your Zeiss lenses. But what if you do. Will you get Leica or Zeiss to fix it? So why not consider the Leica 21mm Elmarit or the slightly less costly 24 mm Elmarit (no extra viewfinder needed). If funds are not immediately available wait a bit - I know that can be difficult. For me if Zeiss lenses came coded I would have purchased at least one just to experience the quality. This is meant to be helpful? Hope it is. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRabbit Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted June 21, 2007 Hi Jeff, I hear what you're saying. Actually though, I have always yearned for Zeiss glass (when I was shooting Canon) so, I'm not sure I'll always yearn for Leica glass. Time will tell. I've actually already purchased my lenses... all Zeiss... the 21 f/2.8 and 35 f/2 Biogons and the 50 f/2 Planar. I've heard (and seen) amazing things about all three. The only concern I had was with the 21 and IR contamination or Cyan shift. Once I start shooting with it myself, I'll know how much of an issue it is and can then decide if I need to jump through the coding/bayonet hoops. The 35 and 50 seem easy enough to hand-code myself, if necessary. Amy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseelig Posted June 21, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 21, 2007 Don Goldberg when he switched my mounts checked focus on my zeiss lenses he found no issues. If he had he could easily have fixed it . David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 21, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 21, 2007 I second many views that the 21 Biogon is a gem. I used its predecessor on my Contax G2 and had no hesitation in ordering it for my M8. I have mine coded as a WATE with a 28/90 bayonet, so that I can vary the amount of cyan vignetting I want to cancel. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27101-zeiss-21mm-f28-biogon-on-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=287064'>More sharing options...
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