AF Drive Problems Leica S Lenses: Official Statement by Leica

[Photon42]

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I would normally also send my lenses directly, but living in Switzerland, items shipped to Germany are due for import duties both ways, which can then be reimbursed after some paperwork from both parties. Leica Switzerland handles that for me. Despite the relative proximity to Wetzlar (Alan, listen 😉) this adds easily two full weeks of wait.

[Sarnian]

On 11/28/2019 at 4:48 PM, Sarnian said:

My secondhand 30-90mm still has 1 year warranty left on it, however, I can’t send the lens in for a free AF replacement as the AF motor currently works fine. If I want to have the AF motor replaced as a preventative measure - to make it vastly more saleable - then I would have to pay (my 30mm cost me £204 including return shipping).

Btw, I don’t have a dealer so I’m sending my lenses direct to Wetzlar using FedEx. Seems a pretty quick process so far.

Just got the service invoice from Leica for the replacement of the AF motor (preventative measure, so at my cost) plus inspection/correction for decentering (blurry corners) of my 30-90mm: EUR298.00. That includes return postage so I'd say that's pretty good. Now I wait to see if they've performed miracles with the blurry corners! 

[Photon42]

That sounds alright to me. Maybe I check for my Summarit 70, whether or not the AF engine may require service at some point.

[Jeff S]

Sounds like Eur298 too much to me for repairing defective components and/or poor initial QC. I think more folks would have bought into and/or stayed with the system had there been a more proactive and transparent approach.  And if some claim the breakdown incidence is low, then all the more reason to just eat the repair cost without time limitation. But that ship has sailed.

Jeff

Edited January 17, 2020 by Jeff S

[Sarnian]

21 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Sounds like Eur298 too much to me for repairing defective components and/or poor initial QC.

Fair comment. However, EUR298 was money well spent as: a) it future-proofs my lens, and b) it probably adds EUR500 to any future sale price. That's why I'm happy with the situation as it currently is.

[peterv]

Why don't you give it a rest, Jeff 😎😎😎

If I'd have more cash to spend right now, I would gladly pay €300 for a complete checkup in the factory and a new AF drive including shipping. I'd get an extra S lens in my arsenal for an all in all reasonable price. Like others here are starting to say too, you can buy a very nice S lens at the moment for around 3.5K. People can just calculate in the price for the round-trip to Wetzlar and be done with it and have a like-new piece of glass and machinery for a really very nice price that I think is good value for money nowadays.

Perhaps it's time we should leave behind the moaning about the way Leica handled the AF drive malfunctions and start recognising that people can still build up a very good lens system for a very good price at the moment.

[Jeff S]

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Just now, Sarnian said:

Fair comment. However, EUR298 was money well spent as: a) it future-proofs my lens, and b) it probably adds EUR500 to any future sale price. That's why I'm happy with the situation as it currently is.

Sure, given your options, a good move. 

But then there are also some who have reported received free service, even in advance of breakdown, as a courtesy. That doesn’t help matters IMO; it just creates haves and have nots.

Hope you enjoy your shooting without issues going forward.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

2 minutes ago, peterv said:

Why don't you give it a rest, Jeff 😎😎😎

If I'd have more cash to spend right now, I would gladly pay €300 for a complete checkup in the factory and a new AF drive including shipping. I'd get an extra S lens in my arsenal for an all in all reasonable price. Like others here are starting to say too, you can buy a very nice S lens at the moment for around 3.5K. People can just calculate in the price for the round-trip to Wetzlar and be done with it and have a like-new piece of glass and machinery for a really very nice price that I think is good value for money nowadays.

Perhaps it's time we should leave behind the moaning about the way Leica handled the AF drive malfunctions and start recognising that people can still build up a very good lens system for a very good price at the moment.

We’re each entitled to opinions. You’ve also made yours clear and often. Thankfully no time limits here for expression, and in this case when the topic of cost fairness re-emerged.  

Jeff

[alan.y]

17 minutes ago, peterv said:

Why don't you give it a rest, Jeff 😎😎😎

If I'd have more cash to spend right now, I would gladly pay €300 for a complete checkup in the factory and a new AF drive including shipping. I'd get an extra S lens in my arsenal for an all in all reasonable price. Like others here are starting to say too, you can buy a very nice S lens at the moment for around 3.5K. People can just calculate in the price for the round-trip to Wetzlar and be done with it and have a like-new piece of glass and machinery for a really very nice price that I think is good value for money nowadays.

Perhaps it's time we should leave behind the moaning about the way Leica handled the AF drive malfunctions and start recognising that people can still build up a very good lens system for a very good price at the moment.

In principle I agree Leica can do whatever it wants (even arbitrarily offering free AF upgrades to users who "moan" enough or in the right tone), even though much of it offends my sense of fairness. 

The point in "moaning" here IMO is in alerting would-be users about the hidden costs of S ownership, in time and money and mental health, behind the nice prices.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by alan.y

[Sarnian]

14 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Sure, given your options, a good move. 

But then there are also some who have reported received free service, even in advance of breakdown, as a courtesy. That doesn’t help matters IMO; it just creates haves and have nots.

Maybe Leica we’re keeping the individual’s dealer sweet? I’m just a hobbyist who sent my lens direct to Leica.

Anyway, I bought an £8,700 lens for £2,500 so even factoring in the FedEx cost to Leica (£86) and then the service cost (€298) I still saved myself c.£5,900. Happy days! 📷

 

 

[alan.y]

11 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

Maybe Leica we’re keeping the individual’s dealer sweet? I’m just a hobbyist who sent my lens direct to Leica.

Anyway, I bought an £8,700 lens for £2,500 so even factoring in the FedEx cost to Leica (£86) and then the service cost (€298) I still saved myself c.£5,900. Happy days! 📷

 

I suggest resisting the Leica illusion (that you somehow "saved" £6k), as pleasing as it may be, until you actually sell the lens.

[Sarnian]

Just now, alan.y said:

I suggest resisting the Leica illusion (that you somehow "saved" £6k), as pleasing as it may be, until you actually sell the lens.

I know; it’s just what I tell my wife! 🥳

[Jeff S]

22 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

Maybe Leica we’re keeping the individual’s dealer sweet? I’m just a hobbyist who sent my lens direct to Leica.

Anyway, I bought an £8,700 lens for £2,500 so even factoring in the FedEx cost to Leica (£86) and then the service cost (€298) I still saved myself c.£5,900. Happy days! 📷

 

 

Sure, two things can be simultaneously true. I’ve also written about the possibility of picking up a used S007/ Summarit 70 on the cheap.  Great system... it’s why I visit the S forum and voice concerns (and praise)...but if I buy in, it will be from a dealer and former owner, not new from Leica.  And only with new parts and some warranty/return policy. Used prices are cheap for reasons.

Jeff

Edited January 17, 2020 by Jeff S

[Sarnian]

As I’m not made of money I could never buy a new Leica anything!! The only reason I got into the S system was because I picked up a 006 that had sensor corrosion for a mere £786. All I do is use the Healing Tool on Photoshop for about 10 seconds. It’s a different matter for people who bought their camera/lenses new, but, for me, long live system deficiencies! 😎

Edited January 17, 2020 by Sarnian

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, alan.y said:

The point in "moaning" here IMO is in alerting would-be users about the hidden costs of S ownership

I can't agree that a €298 fee for servicing a 5 year old lens is a hidden cost. I assume that any used lens will require service, even if described as "MINT!"

The cost is very competitive for factory-level service, even if it didn't include a new AF motor. My local lens-repair place would certainly charge at least as much. Actually, he would tell me stop wasting his time and send the lens to Leica! He's great, but part of that quality is being honest with customers.

[helged]

2 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I can't agree that a €298 fee for servicing a 5 year old lens is a hidden cost. I assume that any used lens will require service, even if described as "MINT!"

The cost is very competitive for factory-level service, even if it didn't include a new AF motor. My local lens-repair place would certainly charge at least as much. Actually, he would tell me stop wasting his time and send the lens to Leica! He's great, but part of that quality is being honest with customers.

+1. I have no problems with the EURO300 cost. You (obviously) get a new af motor, but also lens adjustments/calibration. Something that needs to be done now and then. 

[Sarnian]

15 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I can't agree that a €298 fee for servicing a 5 year old lens is a hidden cost. I assume that any used lens will require service, even if described as "MINT!"

Indeed. Is getting your car serviced once a year a ‘hidden cost’ of ownership? 

Camera gear insurance is an example of paying something FOR NOTHING. Peace of mind is expensive! 

[Jeff S]

23 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

Indeed. Is getting your car serviced once a year a ‘hidden cost’ of ownership? 

 

Have you ever waited 6 months or more to get your car back from annual service, without loaner? Various such reports in the US since the AF motor breakdowns... even for some brand new lenses.  Sure, a few hundred bucks is relatively cheap, but let’s not forget how this all played out.

Jeff

[helged]

4 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Have you ever waited 6 months or more to get your car back from annual service, without loaner? Various such reports in the US since the AF motor breakdowns... even for some brand new lenses.  Sure, a few hundred bucks is relatively cheap, but let’s not forget how this all played out.

Jeff

And lets not forget that past is past, and present is now. Turnover time for AF motor replacement is now about 2 weeks, which is fine in my book. This include communication with Leica's service department. And after the repair, you are requested to respond to a rather explicit online survey. Leica has clearly taken the message that past service has been variable. So why not move on?

And yes, I talk based on experience; I recently received 4 S-lenses with new af motors (one of which had AF failure, the others to be on the 'safe' side).

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[Jeff S]

19 minutes ago, helged said:

And lets not forget that past is past, and present is now. Turnover time for AF motor replacement is now about 2 weeks, which is fine in my book. This include communication with Leica's service department. And after the repair, you are requested to respond to a rather explicit online survey. Leica has clearly taken the message that past service has been variable. So why not move on?

And yes, I talk based on experience; I recently received 4 S-lenses with new af motors (one of which had AF failure, the others to be on the 'safe' side).

The horror stories were in the US.  Some dealers that got caught up in the mess no longer deal with the S, including one I use. Even Leica Store DC has no bodies and little interest in the system... they seemed shocked I had an interest. The past has affected the present.... in many ways.  Let’s hope the S3 brings back some positive attention.

Jeff