Speenth Posted June 20, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I got my M8 three weeks ago. Image quality amazing - not because the resolution or sharpness is better than the competition, but because there's an intangible sense of depth to the images, unique to Leica optics. However, right from the start I've had a problem: After a few clean images I began to get spots, smears and blobs. Dust on the sensor it seems. How it got there is a mystery since I currently have only two lenses and 90% of the time I use only the 24mm. So, eventually and with some trepidation, I cleaned the sensor. No use. So I took it to my Leica shop and they did a magnificent job - not a blob in sight. Within 2 hours of further shooting (just a dozen images) the blobs and smears were back - in even greater profusion (and this time I hadn't removed the lens since leaving the shop). So I took it back to the shop again and they've sent it to Leica (with a knowing look - I think they have seen this problem before and they're keeping 'mum'). So now I have no new Leica to play with for at least 4 weeks. Its back to the ageing, trusty and totally blob-free Nikon. What I really want to know is: 1 How is this caused? (I've seen a post somewhere, ominously saying its shutter oil) 2 Will Leica fix it once and forever? 3 Is their something I'm doing wrong? 4 Most importantly, is there a sure way I can ensure it won't happen again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Hi Speenth, Take a look here Recurrent spots on M8 sensor. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 20, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 20, 2007 It is grease from the shutter mechanism, because the camera is new. After a few hundred shots it will settle down. The M8 is not the only digital camera to suffer from this. I fear you will have to do some sensor swabbing from time to time ( as with all DSLRs and DRFs.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted June 20, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 20, 2007 I think it is caused be oil and or some type of lubricant on the shutter mechanism, whether it is on the blades or the system that opens and closes them I don't know. I had the same thing on the first M8 but not as bad as you discribe. Haven't seen it on the 2 newer units I now have. The reason I have 2 is because I could wait any longer for Leica NJ to replace my first M8. So I bought a second. At least now if I have to send either in for anything I'll have the second to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gesper Posted June 20, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 20, 2007 I got mine back from Solms a few hours ago after having the shutter replaced. I specifically asked them to clean the sensor while they had it, and when I got it back they even had a sticker on it telling me to be sure to follow the manual when cleaning the shutter. Nonetheless, my very first picture was of a blank blue sky unfocused at f16. It showed that the sensor was covered with dust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted June 20, 2007 Share #5 Posted June 20, 2007 Well after a few thousand actuations, my sensor has been nearly dust free for the past few weeks since I cleaned it. I think it really does settle down after a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted June 20, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 20, 2007 I would concur with everyone above. There is no way to prevent getting occasional dust particles from landing on the sensor. That is a fact of life with an M8 or virtually any camera with interchangeable lenses. I had the same problem you describe. Using Arctic Butterfly over and over, but could only get dust particles. Certain other spots were oil-borne, and the only way they will come off is with swabs and Eclipse 2. I've done it twice--a little nerve-wracking the first time, but you get used to it and it really works well. I wonder whether pre-digital M bodies suffered from the same problem? Now there is an advantage to film cameras--the oil spots would occur on a single film frame, rather than accumulate, and would go away each time you advanced the film. That being said, I'm sticking with my M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted June 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks to one and all for the fast and knowledgeable replies. I posted this because the problem I have is so serious. This is not a few near microscopic marks I can edit out with PhotoShop. Use the link below to reveal a test shot I took just hours after my Leica dealer had cleaned the sensor to perfection (I had not removed the lens between leaving the shop and taking this picture)! Zoom the image and study the sky areas in particular. This SEVERE problem renders the Leica useless as a serious camera .... or is this the extent of the problem that you've all suffered? If so, I'll be seeking to have my money back just as soon as the useless lump of gorgeously wrought metal is returned from Solms! If I am going to suffer this level of artefacting the Leica M8 has no value as a camera - full stop. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/bulkupload.php?ppaction=addphotos&do=preview&photopath=13995&upuser=¬ify=no&rating=&comments=yes&defcat=6346&deftitle=Vienna+-+Leica+Test+shot+%28blobs%29&defdesc=Blobs+and+smears+on+images+within+ours+of+sensor+cleaning+by+Leica+Dealer&defdesc=Blobs+and+smears+on+images+within+ours+of+sensor+cleaning+by+Leica+Dealer&keywords=Vienna+Leica&numprocess=10&processall=no&dthumbs= Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted June 20, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 20, 2007 I know a lot of folks in this forum have had problems with dirty sensors, but I've only needed to blow dust off of mine once in six months. I wish all of you my good luck! Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 20, 2007 You meanit is more serious than tramlines spoiling a whole film? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted June 20, 2007 Share #10 Posted June 20, 2007 Thanks to one and all for the fast and knowledgeable replies. I posted this because the problem I have is so serious. This is not a few near microscopic marks I can edit out with PhotoShop. Use the link below to reveal a test shot I took just hours after my Leica dealer had cleaned the sensor to perfection (I had not removed the lens between leaving the shop and taking this picture)! Zoom the image and study the sky areas in particular. This SEVERE problem renders the Leica useless as a serious camera .... or is this the extent of the problem that you've all suffered? If so, I'll be seeking to have my money back just as soon as the useless lump of gorgeously wrought metal is returned from Solms! If I am going to suffer this level of artefacting the Leica M8 has no value as a camera - full stop. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/bulkupload.php?ppaction=addphotos&do=preview&photopath=13995&upuser=¬ify=no&rating=&comments=yes&defcat=6346&deftitle=Vienna+-+Leica+Test+shot+%28blobs%29&defdesc=Blobs+and+smears+on+images+within+ours+of+sensor+cleaning+by+Leica+Dealer&defdesc=Blobs+and+smears+on+images+within+ours+of+sensor+cleaning+by+Leica+Dealer&keywords=Vienna+Leica&numprocess=10&processall=no&dthumbs= I'm sorry but I really don't see any spots on the most recent images in the link you posted. If you could link directly to the image you are referring to that would help. In any event dust on the sensor is a fact of life with digital. Not that your problem was just dust. Like all other have posted they too had a similar problem with a new M8. Once you use the camera and clean the sensor a few times it will clear up. Now it could been someone in the factory got carried away with the lub on the shutter mechanism. I think it will be find when it comes back from Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted June 21, 2007 Share #11 Posted June 21, 2007 The spots are a problem on the M8. I bought one of those artic butterflies and their swabs as well. Still doesnt really get the spots out like you'd want. Basically I'm starting to be of the opinion that you better shoot lenses wide open on the M8. The shallow DoF will reduce the spots. At F8 and greater they show up all the time and ugly. Also with the back focus problems most lenses have it seems they're optimised from the factory for wide open and get worse on out until F8 where the DoF takes over. So back focus kills you in the middle F stops, spots kill you at the smaller F stops; only thing to do is shoot wide open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M6J Posted June 21, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 21, 2007 Unbelievable! I had already postponed the M8 purchase twice due to the various problems that you people describe. Now I am completely disappointed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted June 21, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 21, 2007 Unbelievable! I had already postponed the M8 purchase twice due to the various problems that you people describe. Now I am completely disappointed... Oh, for Gods sake, most of us just clean their sensors, like any other camera. I have 11 lenses and only one of them backfocuses and its the lenses (Kobalux 21mm) fault. Believable Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted June 21, 2007 You meanit is more serious than tramlines spoiling a whole film? Its the same issue really - these spots appear on every image, just as tramlines would with conventional photography. My issue here is that the M8 is a serious camera and its owner should expect seriously good results technically - to buy it for any other reason would be an extravagance or conceit. If this problem cannot be solved I must conclude that the camera works less well than a poor quality cheapy - thus it is not fit for purpose. I await with interest its return from Solms - I'll keep everybody posted on the outcome and its ongoing performance (or demise) .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted June 21, 2007 I'm sorry but I really don't see any spots on the most recent images in the link you posted.If you could link directly to the image you are referring to that would help. In any event dust on the sensor is a fact of life with digital. Not that your problem was just dust. Like all other have posted they too had a similar problem with a new M8. Once you use the camera and clean the sensor a few times it will clear up. Now it could been someone in the factory got carried away with the lub on the shutter mechanism. I think it will be find when it comes back from Solms. Sorry Shootist, I'm struggling to find a way to put a high resolution copy of my image on-line and link to it directly (this is not so much evidence that I'm a silver-surfer as evidence I'm as bit dim where computers are concerned). Can you tell me how you'd do it? I think it would be valuable to demonstrate the extent of this problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted June 21, 2007 The spots are a problem on the M8. I bought one of those artic butterflies and their swabs as well. Still doesnt really get the spots out like you'd want. Basically I'm starting to be of the opinion that you better shoot lenses wide open on the M8. The shallow DoF will reduce the spots. At F8 and greater they show up all the time and ugly. Also with the back focus problems most lenses have it seems they're optimised from the factory for wide open and get worse on out until F8 where the DoF takes over. So back focus kills you in the middle F stops, spots kill you at the smaller F stops; only thing to do is shoot wide open. I simply don't understand this post! Are you suggesting that I wholly compromise the creative potential of this camera to minimise a technical problem generated by the camera itself?!? If that is the solution I'll use my camera phone in future - at least its spot-free. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted June 21, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 21, 2007 Not to be flippant, but you are only loosing time by sending it Solms. New cameras like this need the sensor cleaned a few times in the first 1000 shots before they get the excess lubricants out of the system. (Happened on my Nikon D200, D2xs, and M8.) The M8 is fine now, so are the Nikons. Best, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted June 21, 2007 Oh, for Gods sake, most of us just clean their sensors, like any other camera. I have 11 lenses and only one of them backfocuses and its the lenses (Kobalux 21mm) fault. Believable Rex Hi' Rex. I understand your reaction, but in my case these spots are persistent - cleaning prevents them for only moments. After a few images the sensor is covered once more (I favour the shutter oil-splashing theory, because the spots are often smears, blobs and wide areas of colour variance and they resist all attempts to clean the sensor using an air brush). If this problem cannot be resolved why would I continue to use the M8 as a serious tool? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #19 Posted June 21, 2007 Not to be flippant, but you are only loosing time by sending it Solms. New cameras like this need the sensor cleaned a few times in the first 1000 shots before they get the excess lubricants out of the system. (Happened on my Nikon D200, D2xs, and M8.) The M8 is fine now, so are the Nikons. Best, Ray Ray, your comment encourages me. I do hope it proves to be the case. I'll keep everyone posted on developments over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted June 21, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 21, 2007 - - - - I wonder whether pre-digital M bodies suffered from the same problem? Now there is an advantage to film cameras--the oil spots would occur on a single film frame, rather than accumulate, and would go away each time you advanced the film. That being said, I'm sticking with my M8. You can be damn sure they did. You could remove it with a blower brush however. The real problem was dust on the negatives when you enlarged them. You blew and brushed and breathed and swore, but in the last analysis, you spotted your prints with a fine brush. And that was an art – half the art in photography! The cloth roller-blind shutter of the M cameras did not splash oil, however. That was one of its virtues. The old man from the Age of Dust-Off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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