decreasing focussing distance...

[eugenepresley]

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Hello!

 

I'm looking for a solution how to decrease the minimum focussing distance of a, let's say, 50mm apo. I'm aware of the Leica M macro-adaptor, which I bought then returned, because of a too important magnification factor. I only want to decrease the focussing distance just a bit, so that I can use a 50mm for a close head shot, for example. I stumbled upon the Novoflex Visoflex III rings, but I'm afraid these too will turn that lens into a true macro lens, which I don't want/need.

 

Any suggestions?

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[Dirk Mandeville]

Buy a 75mm apo? Works great for close head shots.

[Gregm61]

This is a tough system to do adapt to certain type subjects. Always has been. Live view makes it somewhat easier if the M you are using has that feature, at least from a framing standpoint.  My own solution to such a situation would be to simply use my 75mm f2 APO. Yours might be to shoot as close as possible and crop to the desired result. I'd guess it probably wouldn't take much.

[wattsy]

I'm looking for a solution how to decrease the minimum focussing distance of a, let's say, 50mm apo. I'm aware of the Leica M macro-adaptor, which I bought then returned, because of a too important magnification factor. I only want to decrease the focussing distance just a bit, so that I can use a 50mm for a close head shot, for example. I stumbled upon the Novoflex Visoflex III rings, but I'm afraid these too will turn that lens into a true macro lens, which I don't want/need.

 

 

Any extension ring you put between the M lens and the mount has to be at least the depth of the existing lens flange for the lens to be able to clear the mount (the lens can't sit half-in/half-out). As such, I think the extension ring is going to be too long (or deep) for what you are looking to do.

 

75 APO, 75 Summilux or 90 Macro Elmar-M will give you the tightest head shot capability as far as Leica M lenses go. The other option of course is to use an SLR lens with an appropriate adaptor.

[UliWer]

50mm is no ideal focal length on a Leica M to use with extensions. The range of distances you can use between the lens and your object is very small,  focussing and lighting not easy - even with EVF.

 

The example was taken with a 50mm Summilux asph, with an OUBIO/16469 extension ring directly on the M10. Distance approx 30cm- lens at infinity, F:16, flash:

 

 

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The OUBIO was not made for direct connection between the camera and lens, but only for the - old - Visoflex. LV allows to use it without a Viso. It is the only original Leica extension which works to connect any lens with M-Bayonet. Perhaps some new Novoflex adapters  give a smaller extension so being a bit are more flexible .

 

I think the old SOOKY_M, or SOMKY which allowed to connect a collapsable 50mm Elmar lens or the lens head of the "rigid" 50mm Summicron (II) and had goggles which allowed to focus through the viewfinder was more helpful to shorten your minimal  distance  Though of course it doesn't work with a modern Summicron AA.

 

Edit: Thinking of the SOMKY I got the idea of another possible solution: you should be able to connect a 50mm lens to the macro-adapater with goggles (older version) for the 90mm Makro-Elmar. You could not use the viewfinder with the goggles as it was not made for 50mm, though it should work with LV. 

[luigi bertolotti]

The shortest Leitz device with male/female M bayonet is the OUFRO ring... it is shorter than the OUBIO, but with a 50mm set at infinity it anyway focuses much less than 70 cm (I'd say 40 cm or so)... there is the modern LEM VIS II from Novoflex... a set of short tubes but I doubt that the shortest combination is shorter than OUFRO (maybe in Novoflex' site you can find detailed specs about): as Uliwer said, with old Summicrons (removable head) there was the elegant SOMKY solution... which I use reglarly, but of course unusable with the Summicron AA

[UliWer]

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Luigi is right: it was the OUFRO/16469 I used - not the OUBIO/16466.... I keep mixing them up.

 

 

 

...but to tell to tell the truth, an iPhone is much, much more versatlie for non-macro short distances (you may even have it at hands when you carry no camera...):

 

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[eugenepresley]

The shortest Leitz device with male/female M bayonet is the OUFRO ring... it is shorter than the OUBIO, but with a 50mm set at infinity it anyway focuses much less than 70 cm (I'd say 40 cm or so)... there is the modern LEM VIS II from Novoflex... a set of short tubes but I doubt that the shortest combination is shorter than OUFRO (maybe in Novoflex' site you can find detailed specs about): as Uliwer said, with old Summicrons (removable head) there was the elegant SOMKY solution... which I use reglarly, but of course unusable with the Summicron AA

 

 

This is the one you are referring to, Luigi?

 

http://www.rjcamera.com/ocart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80

[UliWer]

Yes, that's the OUFRO or 16469.

[luigi bertolotti]

I looked at the NOVOFLEX LEM VIS II specs... it declares that reproduction ratio, combining the tubes, goes from 0,28:1 to almost 1:1 ; 0,28:1 means a 86x129 mm frame... much smaller than the 271x407mm of a 50mm focused to 70cm... there is a big "uncovered" range.

(they do not specify if 0,28:1 is with a 50mm set at infinity...but I think it is so)

[luigi bertolotti]

This is the one you are referring to, Luigi?

 

http://www.rjcamera.com/ocart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80

Yes, , a Chinese clone of the original (i have both the original and one of those clones... I can stack them together...) As they say, 10mm flange-to-flange... not easy to make something slimmer, given the need to have a decently manageable lock/unlock mechanism for the M bayonet...

[01af]

I'm looking for a solution how to decrease the minimum focussing distance of a, let's say, Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph. [...] I only want to decrease the focussing distance just a bit, so that I can use a 50 mm for a close head shot, for example.

With an M camera, that's impossible ... unless you're using a digital M with CMOS sensor which supports live-view.

 

The easiest way to achieve higher magnification than what you'd get from a 50 mm lens at 0.7 m distance is to use a 75 mm lens at 0.7 m distance.

 

If you insist upon using a 50 mm lens (not necessarily a good idea for close-up head shots) and you're using a digital M with live-view (and preferably an accessory EVF) then the best solution is to use a close-up attachment lens. This is best both in terms of usability as well as in terms of image quality. The close-up lens' strength should be between +1 dpt and +1.5 dpt. It must not exceed +1.5 dpt, otherwise you'd get a gap between the working distance ranges w/ and w/o close-up lens attached. With a close-up lens attached to your taking lens, it will be impossible to focus via rangefinder; you'll have to focus via live-view.

 

You will hardly be able to track down a close-up lens in E39 or E46 size; they just don't come in these small sizes. But it's no problem using a close-up lens with a wider screw-in diameter on a lens with a smaller filter size using a filter step-up ring. Double-element achromatic close-up lenses are better than simple single-element ones.

[UliWer]

...

 

You will hardly be able to track down a close-up lens in E39 or E46 size; they just don't come in these small sizes. But it's no problem using a close-up lens with a wider screw-in diameter on a lens with a smaller filter size using a filter step-up ring. Double-element achromatic close-up lenses are better than simple single-element ones.

Heliopan offers close-up lenses in E 39 and E46mm: https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/system/?func=anzeige&wkid=45841121847362&rub1=Kameras%20%26%20Zubeh%F6r&rub2=Filter%2CNahlinsen&cache=1490352630&nocache=1490352630

 

I think B+W as well.

[01af]

Heliopan offers close-up lenses in E39 and E46: [...].

Oh yes, they do indeed. I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the hint. Unfortunately, they don't offer any +1.5 dpt lenses, so you'd have to pick +1 dpt.

 

By the way, to decrease a 50 mm lens' minimum focusing distance just a bit below 0.7 m using extension tubes, you'd need a tube no longer than 4 mm. And image quality would be less than with a good close-up lens. And again you wouldn't be able to focus via rangerfinder, so it's viable only on digital M cameras with live-view.

[michaelwj]

An M is very good at what it does, but in my opinion trying to make it do something it was never meant to do is a fools errand.

[luigi bertolotti]

An M is very good at what it does, but in my opinion trying to make it do something it was never meant to do is a fools errand.

I agree about close range still images... but speaking of real Macro, with bellows on tripod, M has been Always a good tool : even before EVF times, a Visoflex with its proper vertical finder and the mechanically excellent Bellows II was a solution up to any SLR, imho : and you can adapt onto it many good lenses (Leitz or not).

[ramarren]

If you have an M camera with EVF option, get the EVF, an R Adapter M, and a Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 lens. It will enable you to capture down to a 1:2 magnification (48x72mm area) with no other accessories, and a Macro Adapter-R will net you 1:1 magnification. It probably outperforms an APO 50mm for such close up work anyway, and is both relatively inexpensive and easy to use. 

[michaelwj]

I agree about close range still images... but speaking of real Macro, with bellows on tripod, M has been Always a good tool : even before EVF times, a Visoflex with its proper vertical finder and the mechanically excellent Bellows II was a solution up to any SLR, imho : and you can adapt onto it many good lenses (Leitz or not).

No doubt it's very capable, but it's a lot of extra effort and equipment to get "up to" where an SLR is straight out of the box.

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