ramarren Posted February 10, 2017 Share #21 Posted February 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... Video is a must on today's cameras. A camera without it belong to the past. ... I have had motion capture capability on a couple dozen cameras since 2002. I've never found it to be useful, in fact the motion capture capability of my iPhone is more useful. Perhaps the SL will turn the difference for me, when I find time to do some cinematography. I never used it with my M-P and don't miss it with the M-D. At all. Battery capacity is marginal on the M(240) and really 'bad' compared to competition. Reducing it is going to create problems. ... Absolute rubbish. I last charged my M-P battery two months ago. I've made 700 exposures since, and it's still at 40%. My Sony A7 would barely get 200 exposures out of a full charge, and if I let it sit for a week on the shelf with the power off, the battery was drained empty. Good luck with the whining. We all know you really want an M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Hi ramarren, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted February 10, 2017 Share #22 Posted February 10, 2017 Kinda reminds me of the scene in the 1980 movie Fame, where the Germanic music professor is staring at a student's MIDI setup, covering three tables. Bemused, he asks, "Dos he vant to be a musician - or a 747 pilot?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 10, 2017 Share #23 Posted February 10, 2017 I would love to have a slimmer M-body. It confirms that Leica listens to customers having this fixed. I haven't quite caught up with what Leica calls a 'better sensor'. But it sounds good. Better quality of high ISO settings is great. But still I don't find the improvements worth the cost of up-grading. Due to: - Video is a must on today's cameras. A camera without it belong to the past. I use video 'a little' when on holiday and as a tourist. The video and the still camera is then 'in the same box'. Compact and convenient. When buying a Leica we always have to prepare ourselves for selling it again. It's the young people buying 2.hand Leicas today. They will insist on having video included. No way I am going to buy a camera I will have problems selling to young people of today. - Battery capacity is marginal on the M(240) and really 'bad' compared to competition. Reducing it is going to create problems. This must be solved! What about having a big battery as an 'block add-on' at the bottom of the camera? As the motors were attached on the analogue M's? - How good is a 'much better sensor'? So good that no software created lens adjustments have to be made? Can we use other brand lenses, like Zeiss and Voigtländer, without having purple egdes? Video may be a must for you, but it isn't for other like me and I like to shoot video. I don't need it on my M camera, however, and including crappy video as they did on the M240 I think is a major mistake. If you need video in your camera, then I think you should be looking at the SL. It does video very well. As to battery life, what competition are your referring to. The M10 will have more battery capacity than other mirrorless cameras. If you think DSLRs are competitors to the M10, then respectfully I think you don't understand the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Leica Posted February 10, 2017 Share #24 Posted February 10, 2017 The iLeica! yes?.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted February 10, 2017 Share #25 Posted February 10, 2017 A video capability takes up no room in the camera body. It's a software issue. This can be solved. Video requires - • Heatsinks and additional space (volume) for the sensor heat to dissipate • Additional cards to support I/O • The physical I/O such as HDMI and USB and/or something comparable • Additional buttons to enable video or dual purpose buttons • A means to manage audio capture - like inputs for mic's • Additional CPU power to shuttle data to memory cards, fast memory cards if 4K --- more heat... • Additional CPU power to encode (handling of codecs); this requires more chipsets too (i.e. - more space) • A larger battery to power the sensor full time, and potentially the EVF and/or Rear LCD Screen full time as well • Physical consideration if the camera is going to go in a cage • A sensor who's design requirements/specs includes video capture There was an interesting comment from Stefan D. or Jesko O. in a M-10 interview about how the 4.41 MP EVF panel occupies alot of internal space for cooling fins and is not well suited as external OVF unit. Unless we're on the Leica R&D team, we're just not privy to all this stuff. It's easy to say "it's just software", but there underlying hardware requirements and considerations to make it all happen. Add on top of that additional R&D, interoperability testing (more chipsets in the camera), software / firmware development, beta testing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Barnes Posted February 10, 2017 Share #26 Posted February 10, 2017 Kinda reminds me of the scene in the 1980 movie Fame, where the Germanic music professor is staring at a student's MIDI setup, covering three tables. Bemused, he asks, "Dos he vant to be a musician - or a 747 pilot?" Literally made me laugh out loud, best post I've read all day Andy and kudos for your great german accent my friend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 10, 2017 Share #27 Posted February 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I expect those who insist on video in the M camera are a small minority. The vast majority of M owners are likely to be primarily stills shooters, with no desire for video functionality. And according to early adopters, battery life has not been an issue. I just don't see either of these points as valid criticisms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Leica Posted February 10, 2017 Share #28 Posted February 10, 2017 its hard to say NO to the Leica M10, lack of video ist the last way out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 10, 2017 Share #29 Posted February 10, 2017 I expect those who insist on video in the M camera are a small minority. Per the Forum poll, 6 out of 678 responders. 0.8% http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268406-survey-interested-in-the-new-leica-m10/page-14 Not a significant target market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 10, 2017 Share #30 Posted February 10, 2017 I expect those who insist on video in the M camera are a small minority. The vast majority of M owners are likely to be primarily stills shooters, with no desire for video functionality. And according to early adopters, battery life has not been an issue. I just don't see either of these points as valid criticisms. They may not be of concern to the majority of potential customers but I don't think it's fair to say they are not valid ctiticisms for other people to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 10, 2017 Share #31 Posted February 10, 2017 Per the Forum poll, 6 out of 678 responders. 0.8% http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268406-survey-interested-in-the-new-leica-m10/page-14 Not a significant target market. Well, there you go then. Luckily for those six people, almost every other camera in existence has video functions. Why they feel the need to complain that this one particular camera happens to be aimed squarely at still photographers I will never understand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 10, 2017 Share #32 Posted February 10, 2017 Well, there you go then. Luckily for those six people, almost every other camera in existence has video functions. Why they feel the need to complain that this one particular camera happens to be aimed squarely at still photographers I will never understand. If they like to have a video function in their M camera, and they like everything else about the M10, they are not being unreasonable in voicing their disappointment at losing a feature that they like are they? It's no consolation to them that every other camera offers it. Some aren't happy about losing the electronic level, and say so. I can't see the difference. I shan't miss either feature, but it's not hard to understand that some people might. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 10, 2017 Share #33 Posted February 10, 2017 They may not be of concern to the majority of potential customers but I don't think it's fair to say they are not valid ctiticisms for other people to make. The "validity" of a criticism is a subjective assessment. I clearly stated that I don't see them as valid. I think it's fair to say that because that's exactly how I feel. Others may or may not agree with my assessment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted February 10, 2017 Share #34 Posted February 10, 2017 I shan't miss either feature, but it's not hard to understand that some people might. I suppose you are right. And if both features had been included, people would have found something else to complain about. Funny, it reminds me of the early days with Canon DSLRs after they introduced video functionality. I used to get so frustrated when every firmware update contained numerous upgrades to video functionality while ignoring stills functionality. Another reason I'm happy they removed video from the M camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 10, 2017 Share #35 Posted February 10, 2017 Per the Forum poll, 6 out of 678 responders. 0.8% http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268406-survey-interested-in-the-new-leica-m10/page-14 Not a significant target market. The questionnaire is not well formed. Take me for example. I want video but it is not a must have in an otherwise excellent camera (M10). My response was second choice (interested but waiting). Many folks who would like to see video (but not as must have feature) would have gone for second choice just as I did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #36 Posted February 10, 2017 Video requires - • Heatsinks and additional space (volume) for the sensor heat to dissipate • Additional cards to support I/O • The physical I/O such as HDMI and USB and/or something comparable • Additional buttons to enable video or dual purpose buttons • A means to manage audio capture - like inputs for mic's • Additional CPU power to shuttle data to memory cards, fast memory cards if 4K --- more heat... • Additional CPU power to encode (handling of codecs); this requires more chipsets too (i.e. - more space) • A larger battery to power the sensor full time, and potentially the EVF and/or Rear LCD Screen full time as well • Physical consideration if the camera is going to go in a cage • A sensor who's design requirements/specs includes video capture There was an interesting comment from Stefan D. or Jesko O. in a M-10 interview about how the 4.41 MP EVF panel occupies alot of internal space for cooling fins and is not well suited as external OVF unit. Unless we're on the Leica R&D team, we're just not privy to all this stuff. It's easy to say "it's just software", but there underlying hardware requirements and considerations to make it all happen. Add on top of that additional R&D, interoperability testing (more chipsets in the camera), software / firmware development, beta testing... But competition manages it! You and me might regard 'video as unnecessary'. But not the next generation photographers. - I have a Canon 1Ds III that is impossible to sell. Buyers, mostly youngsters, want video too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #37 Posted February 10, 2017 I suppose you are right. And if both features had been included, people would have found something else to complain about. Funny, it reminds me of the early days with Canon DSLRs after they introduced video functionality. I used to get so frustrated when every firmware update contained numerous upgrades to video functionality while ignoring stills functionality. Another reason I'm happy they removed video from the M camera. But it also a signal about what is happening in the photo market. Video is regarded as 'standard' today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff S Posted February 10, 2017 Share #38 Posted February 10, 2017 Video requires - • Heatsinks and additional space (volume) for the sensor heat to dissipate • Additional cards to support I/O • The physical I/O such as HDMI and USB and/or something comparable • Additional buttons to enable video or dual purpose buttons • A means to manage audio capture - like inputs for mic's • Additional CPU power to shuttle data to memory cards, fast memory cards if 4K --- more heat... • Additional CPU power to encode (handling of codecs); this requires more chipsets too (i.e. - more space) • A larger battery to power the sensor full time, and potentially the EVF and/or Rear LCD Screen full time as well • Physical consideration if the camera is going to go in a cage • A sensor who's design requirements/specs includes video capture These are all requirements for a true video camera. But necessarily required for a still camera with basic video functionality to save movie files on an SD. The CPU, transfer speed etc all meet or exceed that if the video on the M240 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #39 Posted February 10, 2017 Per the Forum poll, 6 out of 678 responders. 0.8% http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268406-survey-interested-in-the-new-leica-m10/page-14 Not a significant target market. Sure, and this is a poll among 'existing users'. Us oldies, more or less. But there is a new generation photographers coming that are used to - expect - that cameras have a video capability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwino Posted February 10, 2017 Share #40 Posted February 10, 2017 The iLeica! Isn't this the T(L)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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