M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.

[Paulus]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Am 26.2.2020 um 19:46 schrieb adan:

As it always says in investment prospectuses, "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."

As you see, you were right about the "investment prospectuses".  

It's a good time to buy a reasonable priced M10 which is going out of production see: 

https://www.leica-store-muenchen.de/de/produkt/13716/leica-m10-silber

Cab someone explain to me why the silver one iOS going out of production and the black one stays on? 

[Kwesi]

There is less demand for silver chrome bodies so the existing shells are being used for the M10R.

I think the M10R is a smart move by Leica because it helps to clear existing M10 stock while buying them more time to deal with the challenges of bringing a 40mp M11 to market. issues like heat dissipation from Maestro III processor, for example.

[dkmoore]

6 hours ago, Kwesi said:

\ buying them more time to deal with the challenges of bringing a 40mp M11 to market. 

Doesn't seem like there is a challenge as the M10R is exactly this.

"issues like heat dissipation from Maestro III processor, for example." 

I don't think this was a concern either. I do agree that rolling out the R and Monochrom is to buy time as they aren't going to bring the M11 out at the typical 4 year interval but I believe that is because they are working on bigger challenges:

1. IBIS
2. Improved rangefinder devoid of alignment issues (whether that is integrated EVF or some sort of focus alignment alert)
3. *maybe even medium format sensor!*

Those are the challenges I think Leica is working on but that is purely a guess/wishful thinking. 

[Kwesi]

Interesting, I’m curious to see ibis in an M. I’ve never had a camera with it so don’t know what I’m missing. I think what I’m getting at is that theM10R is using the Maestro II processor  which is slower and less capable than the Maestro III Used in the SL 2.  The processor is currently available but may run too hot for the M10 given how cramped it is inside. Anyway I’m glad we agree that the M10R gives Leica some breathing room for M11 development. I’m pretty certain though that the M 11 will use the same 40mp sensor as the M10 R

[kegon]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Kwesi:

The processor is currently available but may run too hot for the M10 given how cramped it is inside.

The current battery of the M10 also might be a little weak... Other than that, why would Leica squeeze an SL2 into an M10 body (IBIS, EVF, Maestro3...)? Only differentiator would be the Sensor,  which is derived from the S3 and not from Panasonic. Moreover, how huge would such an M be?

[dkmoore]

On 7/19/2020 at 2:55 PM, Kwesi said:

Interesting, I’m curious to see ibis in an M. I’ve never had a camera with it so don’t know what I’m missing. I think what I’m getting at is that theM10R is using the Maestro II processor  which is slower and less capable than the Maestro III Used in the SL 2.  The processor is currently available but may run too hot for the M10 given how cramped it is inside. Anyway I’m glad we agree that the M10R gives Leica some breathing room for M11 development. I’m pretty certain though that the M 11 will use the same 40mp sensor as the M10 R

The SL2 completely sold me on IBIS. First try with a 75 cron-m at 1/15 and I nailed critical focus on my wife's eyeball in the low lit Leica store. Super quick and easy. 

It ALMOST stole me away from my beloved M but I love the M cameras far too much. 

[dkmoore]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 7/19/2020 at 3:18 PM, kegon said:

The current battery of the M10 also might be a little weak... Other than that, why would Leica squeeze an SL2 into an M10 body (IBIS, EVF, Maestro3...)? Only differentiator would be the Sensor,  which is derived from the S3 and not from Panasonic. Moreover, how huge would such an M be?

Well, the most important reason would be using native M lenses, which still are better on the M than SL. Also, the look of the camera. The M is far sexier.

Oh, and it is far lighter. The list goes on.

[Fontan]

I would like a built in EVF that can be permanently disabled so not to upset the traditionalists. 🙄

[Steve Ash]

On my wish list for the M11 the highest priority is to keep the body sizing and controls as they are in the M10. For technical improvements I simply trust in the ingenuity of the Leica engineers.

[dkmoore]

11 hours ago, Steve Ash said:

On my wish list for the M11 the highest priority is to keep the body sizing and controls as they are in the M10. For technical improvements I simply trust in the ingenuity of the Leica engineers.

I also love the current size and controls. I would not mind the addition of the foux wind lever for a built in thumbs up but I don’t see that happening. It was mad genius. 

[nilsen]

24 megapixels sensor with m10r technology, and usb c for charging and ocasional tehered shooting. Snappier live view performance would be a nice to have. IBIS would be fantastic, but probably not possible without going back to m240 dimensions.

[Chaemono]

My biggest wish for the M11 is either a Sony 24 MPx BSI sensor (unlikely to happen) for superb low light performance or IBIS. If I could be granted only one of these wishes, I’d definitely go with IBIS. Sony and Nikon have it in tiny bodies. There’s got to be a way to keep the M11 processor cool. Maybe they’ll use an ARM based architecture in a new processor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_processor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

Processors that have a RISC architecture typically require fewer transistors than those with a complex instruction set computing (CISC) architecture (such as the x86 processors found in most personal computers), which improves cost, power consumption, and heat dissipation.

[adan]

The Maestro series processors are already RISC/ARM, based on Fujitsu Milbeaut - ARM controller introduced in v.6 (2011) and a 7th-gen is now out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milbeaut

I agree about back-side-illumination sensors, and it isn't clear to me that they are unlikely, or limited to Sony (since Fuji also makes their own). Whether they are compatible with Leica's "special needs" with wide RF lenses is a question, although I would think "pixel wells on the front/circuits on the back" would actually help with vignetting and crosstalk.

[Chaemono]

Whatever the M11 will be, it won’t be an M10-R with 50 MPx. It’s got to differentiate itself enough from the current offering to entice people to switch. Very interesting.

[scott kirkpatrick]

What is known about the current working relations between Leica and Socionext?  Until around 2018 (Photokina) they appeared together talking about their Maestro collaboration, and that was post Maestro II, pre S3.  I haven't seen anything since.  And is there still a second controller or processor inside an M10/S3/SL2 which controls the camera functions that lie outside the high speed image pipeline?  Or does the Arm controller on the Maestro do all of that?

[Chaemono]

The obvious thing, they extended their collaboration in 2018 to work on the next generation processor, presumably Maestro IV. One cannot infer anything about the M11 from that.

[Chaemono]

Am 19.7.2020 um 18:46 schrieb dkmoore:

[...]
...I believe that is because they are working on bigger challenges:
[...]

3. *maybe even medium format sensor!*

Those are the challenges I think Leica is working on but that is purely a guess/wishful thinking. 

They could put a MF sensor in but it would be mostly hidden. 😂

Edited July 26, 2020 by Chaemono

[Dr No]

15 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Whatever the M11 will be, it won’t be an M10-R with 50 MPx. It’s got to differentiate itself enough from the current offering to entice people to switch. Very interesting.

My guess is 28-30MP with 2 stop DR/ISO gains.

[mike3996]

I believe M11 will be pretty close to M10-R. Same sensor for starters. No IBIS. No builtin EVF.

The improvements are small but meaningful: revised battery. New Visoflex. Perhaps an optional electronic shutter and EFCS to allow lower shutter lag while in LV and faster shutter speeds for daylight Noctilux  sessions.

It will come pretty soon, by Dec 2021.

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Chaemono]

NO IBIS, NO PEACE, NO IBIS, NO PEACE,...