Filter size for 28mm F5.6 Summaron-M

[ramarren]

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Leica RF was always a PITA when it came to filter sizes. I'm getting an E34-E39 filter adapter, and I have a short E39 lens hood that can screw into the front of that. If that doesn't work, finding an E34 Green and Orange filter set is proving to be irritating ... those are the two filters I use most of the time. Sigh. 

G

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[Kl@usW.]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb ramarren:

Leica RF was always a PITA when it came to filter sizes. I'm getting an E34-E39 filter adapter, and I have a short E39 lens hood that can screw into the front of that. If that doesn't work, finding an E34 Green and Orange filter set is proving to be irritating ... those are the two filters I use most of the time. Sigh. 

G

Not exactly on topic, just for my education:  an orange filter is my "standard" for landscape--but what is the use for a green filter ?  To lighten up foliage ?  I thought it was more or less obsolete with modern emulsions.. Please tell me. 

Concerning the topic: I´m using the ThvO-sunshade for a long time now and haven't found a better solution for using filters on the 5,6/28. It´s not really necessary in its primary function as a sunshade, but if you use filters I don't see a viable solution different from that... 

 

[pippy]

21 minutes ago, Kl@usW. said:

...an orange filter is my "standard" for landscape--but what is the use for a green filter ?  To lighten up foliage?...

This has been discussed quite a bit but, briefly, one reason for using a Green filter when taking portraits of caucasian subjects is to deliver a more 'naturalistic' appearance because the filter will give greater tonal separation between lips, cheeks etc. and base skin-tone which more closely resembles these tonal values in 'real life'.

Philip.

[ramarren]

1 hour ago, Kl@usW. said:

Not exactly on topic, just for my education:  an orange filter is my "standard" for landscape--but what is the use for a green filter ?  To lighten up foliage ?  I thought it was more or less obsolete with modern emulsions.. Please tell me. 

Concerning the topic: I´m using the ThvO-sunshade for a long time now and haven't found a better solution for using filters on the 5,6/28. It´s not really necessary in its primary function as a sunshade, but if you use filters I don't see a viable solution different from that... 

I find the Green filter reduces contrast and give me more tonal separations on average subjects with the M10-M. An Orange filter bangs up the contrast and reduces the number of tonal separations ... essentially the pair constitute a contast- and contrast+ filter set, where the M10-M without a filter is a contrast 0 neutral gray scale capture.

Here's a graphic describing what I just said ... 

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If you go to Flickr (just click on it), you can download the full resolution version which is more readable. 

---

I refuse to pay $250+ for a 34mm filter adapter/lens hood. The Heliopan E34->E39 step up ring is $25, and I have a Heliopan short lens hood in 39mm that will go right on the front of whatever filter I fit using the adapter. These short metal lens hoods in 39mm seem to be in short supply at present; I bought mine at B&H Photo a few years ago for $25.

G

Edited April 9, 2024 by ramarren

[ramarren]

On 4/9/2024 at 9:19 AM, ramarren said:

Leica RF was always a PITA when it came to filter sizes. I'm getting an E34-E39 filter adapter, and I have a short E39 lens hood that can screw into the front of that. If that doesn't work, finding an E34 Green and Orange filter set is proving to be irritating ... those are the two filters I use most of the time. Sigh. 

The E34-E39 filter adapter arrived today and I tested it as well as the Heliopan short E39 hood on the Summaron-M 28. The good news: the filter adapter and both my 39mm orange and green filters fit beautifully and do not vignette. The not-so-good news: The short E39 hood vignettes on the adapter even without a filter fitted, and quite noticeably with a filter fitted. 

So I'm hunting for 34mm Green and Orange filters. They seem quite difficult to find. I can get deep yellow, light yellow, and red, as well as ND and UV, none of which I use as much as green and orange. PITA... 🤬

G

Postscript: I finally found a supplier ... https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk in the UK has them. Placed an order. 

Edited April 14, 2024 by ramarren

[Mute-on]

1 hour ago, ramarren said:

The E34-E39 filter adapter arrived today and I tested it as well as the Heliopan short E39 hood on the Summaron-M 28. The good news: the filter adapter and both my 39mm orange and green filters fit beautifully and do not vignette. The not-so-good news: The short E39 hood vignettes on the adapter even without a filter fitted, and quite noticeably with a filter fitted. 

So I'm hunting for 34mm Green and Orange filters. They seem quite difficult to find. I can get deep yellow, light yellow, and red, as well as ND and UV, none of which I use as much as green and orange. PITA... 🤬

G

Postscript: I finally found a supplier ... https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk in the UK has them. Placed an order. 

If you were happy not to use the hood, the step-up ring and Heliopan 39mm filters would work. Is that correct?

[ramarren]

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39 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

If you were happy not to use the hood, the step-up ring and Heliopan 39mm filters would work. Is that correct?

Yes, if used without a lens hood, the step up ring + filter works fine. I like having a hood in place, however: It helps protect the lens as well as reduces flare (and adding a filter increases the propensity for flare).

The Leica-supplied hood is excellent, but you can only use it with compatibly sized 34mm filters. 

IMO, if I were designing the lens and trying to keep the style in the look of the 1950s original, and I'd already made the decision that the front standard diameter had to be increased to achiever whatever it was they felt had to be achieved, I would have increased it enough to put a 39mm filter thread on the lens since so many other Leica RF lenses take 39mm filters. 

G

[Mute-on]

2 hours ago, ramarren said:

Yes, if used without a lens hood, the step up ring + filter works fine. I like having a hood in place, however: It helps protect the lens as well as reduces flare (and adding a filter increases the propensity for flare).

The Leica-supplied hood is excellent, but you can only use it with compatibly sized 34mm filters. 

IMO, if I were designing the lens and trying to keep the style in the look of the 1950s original, and I'd already made the decision that the front standard diameter had to be increased to achiever whatever it was they felt had to be achieved, I would have increased it enough to put a 39mm filter thread on the lens since so many other Leica RF lenses take 39mm filters. 

G

Many thanks, and agree re: design for 39mm filter thread (even if not part of the V1 design). 

[Pyrogallol]

As I have said before somewhere, these old Leica filters are 34mm. Type “H” in the accessories book. They do not have a filter thread on the front to add a hood on top.

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[ramarren]

1 hour ago, Pyrogallol said:

As I have said before somewhere, these old Leica filters are 34mm. Type “H” in the accessories book. They do not have a filter thread on the front to add a hood on top.

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Okay, I'll bite: Where the heck do you find them? Give me a search parameter that will find them today. 

G

[Pyrogallol]

3 hours ago, ramarren said:

Okay, I'll bite: Where the heck do you find them? Give me a search parameter that will find them today. 

G

Searching for “Leica filter Elmar hektor “ found one or two, but expensive. Try just searching for any Leica or Leitz filter and trawl through until you find something.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=leica+filter+elmar+hektor&_sacat=0&_odkw=leica+filter+elmar+hektor+summaron&_osacat=0

[ramarren]

21 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Searching for “Leica filter Elmar hektor “ found one or two, but expensive. Try just searching for any Leica or Leitz filter and trawl through until you find something.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=leica+filter+elmar+hektor&_sacat=0&_odkw=leica+filter+elmar+hektor+summaron&_osacat=0

Okay, after half an hour of searching, I found one each of a yellow and a green filter in the E34 screw-in style. There are plenty of slip on and clamp on filters for A36, but of course Leica changed the outside diameter so they're not usable. ...  But then, the Austrian vendor who has them blocks shipment to the USA... ??? Sheesh.  

Finding filters in the correct E34 size is a serious nightmare. Thanks, whomever it was who decided to make the 28 Summaron modern version with a 37.5mm OD and 34mm filter thread. 🤬

G

[Kl@usW.]

Am 9.4.2024 um 23:09 schrieb pippy:

This has been discussed quite a bit but, briefly, one reason for using a Green filter when taking portraits of caucasian subjects is to deliver a more 'naturalistic' appearance because the filter will give greater tonal separation between lips, cheeks etc. and base skin-tone which more closely resembles these tonal values in 'real life'.

Philip.

Thank you Philip, but the problem is: any pimple, distended vein or other less welcome reddish impurities of the skin will be grossly emphasized. Good idea for a  portrait of the guy sitting at the street corner and asking for a penny, but nothing any women older than 20 will appreciate.  

K. 

[Kl@usW.]

Am 9.4.2024 um 23:36 schrieb ramarren:

I find the Green filter reduces contrast and give me more tonal separations on average subjects with the M10-M. An Orange filter bangs up the contrast and reduces the number of tonal separations ... essentially the pair constitute a contast- and contrast+ filter set, where the M10-M without a filter is a contrast 0 neutral gray scale capture.

Here's a graphic describing what I just said ... 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

If you go to Flickr (just click on it), you can download the full resolution version which is more readable. 

---

I refuse to pay $250+ for a 34mm filter adapter/lens hood. The Heliopan E34->E39 step up ring is $25, and I have a Heliopan short lens hood in 39mm that will go right on the front of whatever filter I fit using the adapter. These short metal lens hoods in 39mm seem to be in short supply at present; I bought mine at B&H Photo a few years ago for $25.

G

Thank you ramarren, I didn't see it the way you describe it but I will probably try how it works on b/w film. 

About the ThvO hood: I tried different combinations of Step up rings, filters, the Heliopan short lens hood.... but they all  seemed  to vignette.  In the end, I ordered the ThvO hood at a check out price of about 160 € plus shipping... and waited... and forgot about the order... after 10 months or so I remembered, wrote an email to the seller -no reply. Fortunately I had paid by PayPal and so was able to "open a case" . Next day !  ThvO wrote me an email, excused and promised a fast delivery--it somehow was forgotten. Since the hood was paid for nearly a year before, , I got it for the old price.

Agreed, I wouldn't pay the current price of 250 $ today. That's just too crazy. 

[ramarren]

2 hours ago, Kl@usW. said:

Thank you ramarren, I didn't see it the way you describe it but I will probably try how it works on b/w film. 

About the ThvO hood: I tried different combinations of Step up rings, filters, the Heliopan short lens hood.... but they all  seemed  to vignette.  In the end, I ordered the ThvO hood at a check out price of about 160 € plus shipping... and waited... and forgot about the order... after 10 months or so I remembered, wrote an email to the seller -no reply. Fortunately I had paid by PayPal and so was able to "open a case" . Next day !  ThvO wrote me an email, excused and promised a fast delivery--it somehow was forgotten. Since the hood was paid for nearly a year before, , I got it for the old price.

Agreed, I wouldn't pay the current price of 250 $ today. That's just too crazy. 

I'll be interested to hear what you think of using the green filter, and what subjects you use it on. I like it enough with the M10 Monochrom that it has become pretty much my standard shooting setup, unless light levels are very low. The M10-M has such amazing capabilities for high-ISO, it takes a lot to get to degradation in low light. 

I'm interested to see what the SRB Photographic filters are like, whether they're quality or what: the set of two of them cost about what one of the old Leica filters were going for. Meanwhile, I did find a green and a deep yellow in old Leica 34mm screw on from that seller in Austria, and they agreed to ship them to me in the USA. So I bought them too and will do some tests with them as well. 

And I will write Leica and gently suggest that if they're going to issues a lens with E34 filter size, or A37.5mm outer diameter (instead of the classic A36mm), then they're also beholden to offer a line of filters and filter adapters that work with the lens and the lens hood properly since nobody supplies these sizes any more. IMO, designing a lens ... even a notable retro/style lens like the Summaron-M 28... that you can't get a proper set of filters for is a pretty foolish way to run a camera equipment company. 

G

[Ronazle]

On 4/9/2024 at 11:19 AM, ramarren said:

Leica RF was always a PITA when it came to filter sizes. I'm getting an E34-E39 filter adapter, and I have a short E39 lens hood that can screw into the front of that. If that doesn't work, finding an E34 Green and Orange filter set is proving to be irritating ... those are the two filters I use most of the time. Sigh. 

G

Well going thru old posts I came upon the 28mm Summaron filter questions/controversey.  I do believe the Leitz SOOGZ adapter answers almost all problems.  It allows the relatively common E39 filters to be screwed in until the reach the back of the adapter (firm but w/o stressing the threads to lock. I t looks like it belong there.  The adapter has no effect on vignetting at either wide open or F22.  At least when focused at 4 feet A BW E39 haze filter screwed into the SOOGZ had no effect Vignette wise.  Add the Leitz A42 lens hood to the stack again had no visible effect.  Needless to say, the E39 filters are cheaper and more readily available than the odd sizes.  The SOOGZ adapter allows a filter to be mounted perpendicular to the lens without stressing any of the involved threads. BTW my Summaron  is an older SM that I picked up used in the vicinity of Red Bank, New Jersey, long long ago. Take care, Ron

Edited October 17, 2024 by Ronazle
clarity

[ramarren]

5 hours ago, Ronazle said:

Well going thru old posts I came upon the 28mm Summaron filter questions/controversey.  I do believe the Leitz SOOGZ adapter answers almost all problems.  ...

That's exactly the problem with the current production Summaron-M 28mm f/5.6: The SOOGZ cannot fit it because the front lens standard is 37mm, not 36mm, in diameter. I have this adapter and it works beautifully on my 1950s Elmar 5.0cm f/3.5 lens ... It cannot fit the modern Summaron-M 28mm and it certainly cannot be used with the lens hood at all. 

I have a B+W or Heliopan 34->39mm filter adapter which works if you don't want to use the lens hood, plus I found both yellow-green and yellow classic 34mm Leitz filters, and I had orange, deep green, and red filters cut down and mounted in 34mm filter rings (which work inside the lens hood) so I'm now fully equipped with the filters I need. But it was much more of a PITA than even the usual filter craziness. 

G

[Ronazle]

Well, that kills whatever thought I had of making a collector happy with my SM 28mm and replacing it with the current production M 28mm.  Must have been re-designed by the same guy who didn't think we would notice the UV induced color shift(s) on the initial M8 offerings. I wonder what the reasoning for the slight od increase was?

Edited October 18, 2024 by Ronazle

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[graphlex]

Current state of play:

Heliopan no longer sells its 34mm UV/clear filters with that essential-for-Summaron .5mm pitch.  Only choices I see left are (1) use supplied hood and no filter, (2) jam a .75mm-pitch filter into the Summaron and then figure out hood options. Downside to both is that lens ends up at Leica Germany for six months for repair.  If with option (1) the lens ends up in Germany for repair, grin and bear it.  The unprotected front element is fairly cheap for Leica to make, at least.

Option (3), if you end up with a damaged front element, is to toss the Summaron in the trash.

All of the above pertains only to UV and protective filters. If you need color filters for Monochrom or film then God help you, especially if the filter must cross an international border. If the filter makes it through American CBP, or whatever barriers have anything to do with Northern Ireland, CONGRATULATIONS!

[jpark114]

Take a look at my other post.  I still think that's the best solution for Summaron