jaapv Posted January 24, 2017 Share #21 Posted January 24, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) And some people like both, depending on what they are photographing and how. It doesn't have to be binary. That is an expensive trait... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here M10 or SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 24, 2017 Share #22 Posted January 24, 2017 If the SL was something you wore it would be socks and sandals. Ew. Wearing the SL will prompt the question whether you sell fish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 24, 2017 Share #23 Posted January 24, 2017 That is an expensive trait... True, though I don't have the big lens collections that some seem to have. And I've never felt the need to have a second body of either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 24, 2017 Share #24 Posted January 24, 2017 Lucky enough to be able to have both. I use the SL with one of its native lenses in the winter. When it's cold and wet, I often don't feel like going outside to shoot with a rangefinder. I very much like the convinience of having AF then. The camera bag is only slightly larger even with the 50 Lux-SL and I don't mind carrying the extra weight around. In the summer, I prefer the M especially since the M lenses perform a bit better with it than with the SL. The problem is I've gotten so used to the look of the SL images by now that I'm beginning not to like the M240 files as much. Initially, when the SL came out, it was the other way around. I'm glad that the M10 files also have a more neutral, not oversaturated look. Just like with the SL one can process them to taste with the starting colors showing mostly the character of the lens used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 24, 2017 Share #25 Posted January 24, 2017 Anybody else thinking about dumping the SL? I dumped mine. I really didn't get on with the EVF and didn't want / couldn't afford ( ) to get the SL lenses. M lenses work best on M's for me - and that's where I would rather keep my investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted January 24, 2017 Share #26 Posted January 24, 2017 The only thing you will regret is the money your going to lose selling the SL. Used prices are extremely low. I would like to buy a second-hand SL as a backup camera. Unfortunately I cannot find a "cheap" offer. (Very strange). At the same time I can find plenty of cheap offers for M240 and M9. (No use for me as I already have the M246). I can only recommend having a M and a SL. Then you can concentrate on your topics and forget about which camera is better. After a year you will automatically see which has produced more photos. (Use your time - carpe diem). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 24, 2017 Share #27 Posted January 24, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Horses for courses!! I'm sure if the internet had existed in the 50's we could find lots of posts from people saying how the Leicaflex has killed the M, but why oh why can't they make it a bit smaller..... As for the SL v M10 surely the biggest deciding factor is the need or not for AF? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted January 24, 2017 Share #28 Posted January 24, 2017 As for the SL v M10 surely the biggest deciding factor is the need or not for AF? Sorry, this is a very theoretical view. AF is well overrated and not always necessary. (as many here can confirm ). From the actual user: It is a question if a good EVF is important for the work or not. For macro e.g. it is simply indispensable And even for classic M lenses like the Noctilux, the EVF is very useful (some say comfortable). Also for tele lenses (135mm and upwards). And not least for UWA (I prefer using the WATE on the SL) For me it is a bit like 6x6 where you had a big finder that showed what was in focus in the whole image area, not just in the center. As said above, there is plenty of room for both. (no need for "vs") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2017 Share #29 Posted January 24, 2017 Horses for courses!! Exactly right…..It all depends what one needs a camera to do, there's yet to be a camera that does it all, at least not for me anyway. So, for my DSLR needs nothing yet beats a fully fledged Nikon, in my case a D810. Built like a tank and produces really great files. The OVF is close to the superb R OVF which I rate as the best ever. I'm in the club that says a good OVF beats an EVF anyday, hands down. I tried more than once to love the SL's EVF, just couldn't and anyway the SL native lenses are ridiculously large lumps and glass and metal to hump around irrespective of their optical performances. I also found the SL awkward to use. Yes I know of it's value with M lenses, but that's irrelevant to me. For an EVF camera I much prefer my Panasonic GH4, ( and have pre-ordered the GH5 ), the EVF is really good and for my eye easily an equal to the SL's, the LCD is great too being orientable and a touch screen, the camera operation and controls are very logical and it produces great 4K video which for me is the camera's main usage. No 4K in a Leica yet which is a damming point for those who shoot video and stills with the same gear/systems. I have a Q that I am constantly telling myself that I should sell, but I love using it and the images are pretty damn good without much of an effort. In my case it's become a really expensive snapshot camera I guess. It's my grab and run camera either for on-set work or personal walking around stuff. My present M's consist of two M 240's and a MM1 and I like them enough not to be tempted to upgrade to the M10. The MM1's B&W image quality is glorious, so TriX, so that's a keeper for good and although admittedly I've been one of those who has nudged for ever for a "thinner" M now that there's one available I don't think that it's worth the extra expense it would take to trade the 240's and buy one. Also I know many are slathering over the top ISO dial, but I cannot see what the big deal is there. I have never had an ISO shifting problem with any of my Digital M's, best if it wasn't there at all in my view. I would have liked more finder info' but that's just personal, there's always something isn't there? As earlygallery said, "horses for courses" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 24, 2017 Share #30 Posted January 24, 2017 And what would the M be? An untucked button-down with blue jeans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 24, 2017 Share #31 Posted January 24, 2017 And what would the M be? Dior Homme by Hedi Slimane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 24, 2017 Share #32 Posted January 24, 2017 It has to do with the through-the-lens-versus-rangefinder debate that has been raging since the middle of last century. Let's not pretend that we have to invent the wheel all over again. Those who prefer a TTL system - i.e. a system that will allow you to see the image that is being made will prefer the SL, those who prefer to see their surroundings through a viewfinder and select the image from there will prefer the M10. Nothing has changed. BTW, the real advantage of the SL Leicaflex was the exceedingly clear viewfinder. Nothing has changed indeed. I guess; the limitations of the rangefinder (there since 1954) have never gone away, and its benefits are still there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillo Posted January 24, 2017 Share #33 Posted January 24, 2017 [...] If an L camera comes out with the M body form factor including the SL EVF, I would buy it as a second body for my small sized M lenses. Have you seen the size of the SL viewfinder? Let me give you a hint: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted January 24, 2017 Share #34 Posted January 24, 2017 I had sold my SL already some time ago, knowing that there would be a new M coming. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted January 24, 2017 Share #35 Posted January 24, 2017 ... Anybody else thinking about dumping the SL? ... No, not at all. I use the SL with its native SL24-90 lens and with my collection of Leica R-system lenses and accessories. The SL is a far superior camera to use with the R lenses. I only rarely use M lenses on the SL, and then almost always it's the Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21 ... where the SL's viewfinder also provides the best focusing and framing options. I wouldn't give up an M either, and find the SL does such a good job that I moved to the M-D which I use primarily with 35 and 75mm lenses. The two cameras are perfect complements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 24, 2017 Share #36 Posted January 24, 2017 My biggest surprise so far has been how good the Visoflex 020 is on the M10. Not as good as the SL's of course, but so much more usable than the VF-2 on the M-240. With M lenses the auto magnify is really quick, there's no need for edge detect, and the blackout is proving to be much less of an issue than I had feared. No substitute for a good SLR, but hey, I've got the OVF rangefinder for most circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted January 25, 2017 Share #37 Posted January 25, 2017 Have you seen the size of the SL viewfinder? Let me give you a hint: [emoji6] I am sure Leica can do better than that. [emoji1] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidio1111 Posted January 25, 2017 Share #38 Posted January 25, 2017 I actually own the SL since the day it was released and just got the M10 today. When it comes to using M lenses in the limited time I tested it I felt it was about equal in both ease of focus/use and image quality to the SL. I did not feel that way about the M240 when I had it. The M10 Visoflex seems to me almost the same as the SL in terms of ease of focus. The edge enhance might be a bit better on the M10 even. The quality of the viewfinder image seems pretty similar. There is a slight bit of lag when using the live view with the M10 but it is nowhere near as troublesome as I might have thought. You get used to it pretty quick. I'm using Capture One and the look of the photos is fantastic, easily as good as the SL files. From the samples I've seen using Lightroom I will say I prefer the C1 rendering. I also notice the lighter weight on the M10. It feels much smaller and lighter. It's quicker changing lenses on the M10 because there is no adapter to get in the way. For me I stumbled sometimes with the SL. I also am remembering the fun of shooting a rangefinder. I like to go back and forth, depending on the shot. A lot of times the rangefinder is faster. (Of course not as fast as auto focus but just talking about M lenses here) I did a series of tests of various shots and lenses, first focusing with the rangefinder, then the viewfinder. To my surprise the count was almost equal. Most times both shots were in focus. Occasionally the viewfinder nailed focus a bit better. But there were shots where the rangefinder was better as well. Even with the Nocti it was much closer than I thought it would be. But the viewfinder had an edge here. But again compared to the SL the M10 with the viewfinder seemed no harder to focus the Nocti. So this is just some early impressions but I do like the M10 quite a lot. Some little intangible fun in using it too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted January 25, 2017 Share #39 Posted January 25, 2017 The only thing you will regret is the money your going to lose selling the SL. Used prices are extremely low. used prices for the SL will rise steadily once the clamour for the M10 has eased off a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alib Posted January 25, 2017 Share #40 Posted January 25, 2017 Horses for courses!! I'm sure if the internet had existed in the 50's we could find lots of posts from people saying how the Leicaflex has killed the M, but why oh why can't they make it a bit smaller..... As for the SL v M10 surely the biggest deciding factor is the need or not for AF? The AF is precisely the reason why I bought the SL and am very pleased with the system, with the intention of selling the M240... but I find I am still using the M240 as a general carry everywhere with ease camera and the SL for specific projects tasks where weight is not an issue and/or I need to get close in. The M240 still delivers great results . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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