Kwesi Posted January 24, 2017 Share #61 Posted January 24, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, as I read the specification, the values in the LensSpecification tag are static for a particular lens. Most probably Leica or whoever they subcontracted the software to just didn't fill out the table correctly. The "light sensor" value should not have any effect. Sandy My gut feeling is that the fix was not ready by the camera release date. Leica will probably reinstate the approximated aperture value as part of a firmware update. If Leica needs to be nudged, then let's start a simple poll of current Digital M owners who would like to have the M10 show us the approx aperture value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 Hi Kwesi, Take a look here Leica M10 raw file (DNG) analysis. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sandymc Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share #62 Posted January 24, 2017 FYI, my blog article has been updated - it appears that some of the setting that are in the "Lightroom fingerprint" vary by camera setting. Specifically it appears that noises reduction settings vary by ISO. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted January 24, 2017 Share #63 Posted January 24, 2017 FYI, my blog article has been updated - it appears that some of the setting that are in the "Lightroom fingerprint" vary by camera setting. Specifically it appears that noises reduction settings vary by ISO. Sandy Hi Sandy, Sorry if you have already stated this. my question is, what is the base ISO of the M10? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share #64 Posted January 24, 2017 Hi Sandy, Sorry if you have already stated this. my question is, what is the base ISO of the M10? Can't tell with any certainty from the DNG, I'm afraid. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted January 24, 2017 Share #65 Posted January 24, 2017 To capture in 16 Bit you would need to buy a Phase One XF 100MP camera Anybody know what the S Type 007 captures, is it 14-bit per pixel per channel or something else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted January 24, 2017 Share #66 Posted January 24, 2017 Do we know the lossless compression method for M10 DNG? Jpeg2000? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 24, 2017 Share #67 Posted January 24, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think it is the same as in the M9. There it was not JPEG2000 but a mathematical operation based on a root function. I cannot explain it, mjh described here in the forum and in LFI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted January 24, 2017 Share #68 Posted January 24, 2017 I think it is the same as in the M9. There it was not JPEG2000 but a mathematical operation based on a root function. I cannot explain it, mjh described here in the forum and in LFI. I thought M9 compression was lossy. Lossless introduced with 240, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 24, 2017 Share #69 Posted January 24, 2017 No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 24, 2017 Share #70 Posted January 24, 2017 I thought M9 compression was lossy. .... So it was: " choice of uncompressed or slightly compressed (by non-linear reduction of color depth), " (from the technical data sheet, emphasis is mine) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share #71 Posted January 24, 2017 Do we know the lossless compression method for M10 DNG? Jpeg2000? It is the lossless mode in the original JPEG standard. So not JPEG-LS, JPEG-2000, or any of the later standards. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_JPEG Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted January 24, 2017 Share #72 Posted January 24, 2017 Anybody know what the S Type 007 captures, is it 14-bit per pixel per channel or something else? S 007 is 16 Bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted January 24, 2017 Share #73 Posted January 24, 2017 Do we know the lossless compression method for M10 DNG? Jpeg2000? It a lossless algorithm called Deflate. I wrote a post about it yesterday: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/260683-dng-compressed-vs-uncompressed/page-4 "If you look at page 19 of http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.pdf It specifies the compression algorithm as Deflate aka ZIP. This is a well-known compression algorithm that is very commonly used for computer binaries In packages used to distribute software. It is important to understand this because a change of even one bit in a computer binary can render it inoperable. Thus actual losslessness is very important. You can read up about Deflate compression here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFLATE There is absolutely no reason to be concerned about any sort of loss of information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share #74 Posted January 25, 2017 It a lossless algorithm called Deflate. I wrote a post about it yesterday: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/260683-dng-compressed-vs-uncompressed/page-4 "If you look at page 19 of http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.pdf It specifies the compression algorithm as Deflate aka ZIP. This is a well-known compression algorithm that is very commonly used for computer binaries In packages used to distribute software. It is important to understand this because a change of even one bit in a computer binary can render it inoperable. Thus actual losslessness is very important. You can read up about Deflate compression here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFLATE There is absolutely no reason to be concerned about any sort of loss of information. No, it's losses JPEG, not deflate. Deflate would not be legal in this file. From the spec: "Deflate (8) compression is allowed for floating point image data, 32-bit integer image data and transparency mask data." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 25, 2017 Share #75 Posted January 25, 2017 Sandy, Do you think the XMP data/sidecar could an effort by Leica to lock the processing more firmly into Lightroom, thereby making life even more difficult for those folk like me, who use a different RAW processor. In my case that is Capture One 10 Pro. I know Leica have been unwilling to lend Phase One cameras early in their life, so that profiles can be written for them. In the end for the SL, a forum member had to lend them his own camera before a profile got written. Before that, for the M240, a dealer lent them a camera. I wrote to the powers at Leica and explained that there was a considerable body of Leica digital camera owners, who for one reason or another, do not like or cannot get on with Lightroom. It was doing them a considerable disservice by refusing to lend Phase One a pre-release camera to get their profile made and it was long past time to bury the hatchet with Phase One but of course, got no response. I would guess that between them Lightroom and Capture One would cover the great bulk of Leica owners who take in RAW/DNG. The numbers of owners using other convertors like DxO, Photoraw or Silverfast are probably fairly small now. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share #76 Posted January 25, 2017 Sandy, Do you think the XMP data/sidecar could an effort by Leica to lock the processing more firmly into Lightroom, thereby making life even more difficult for those folk like me, who use a different RAW processor. In my case that is Capture One 10 Pro. I know Leica have been unwilling to lend Phase One cameras early in their life, so that profiles can be written for them. In the end for the SL, a forum member had to lend them his own camera before a profile got written. Before that, for the M240, a dealer lent them a camera. I wrote to the powers at Leica and explained that there was a considerable body of Leica digital camera owners, who for one reason or another, do not like or cannot get on with Lightroom. It was doing them a considerable disservice by refusing to lend Phase One a pre-release camera to get their profile made and it was long past time to bury the hatchet with Phase One but of course, got no response. I would guess that between them Lightroom and Capture One would cover the great bulk of Leica owners who take in RAW/DNG. The numbers of owners using other convertors like DxO, Photoraw or Silverfast are probably fairly small now. Wilson Hi Wilson, It's difficult to say what's in Leica's mind, but I would think that this is more of an effort to get images that look as good as possible immediately on import into Lightroom, rather than trying to lock people into Lightroom. So apply a lens profile, apply noise reduction at higher ISOs, etc automatically. Practically, many users just want something that looks good immediately without having to spend time on adjustments. So from Leica's perspective, you can look at users as two groups : the "instant gratification group", who are likely to use the software that came with the camera, and who the XMP will help, and the "optimize group" that are likely to take time over images, perhaps use an alternate raw processor, etc. The optimize group is going to want to do their own thing anyway, so the XMP won't help them. What's I'm a bit concerned about is that the XMP doesn't seem to be there consistently, and it's not clear under what circumstances it's there or not. So users might get subtly different rendering without a clear idea why. Which I don't feel is ideal. But hopefully this aspect will become clearer over time. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 25, 2017 Share #77 Posted January 25, 2017 Sandy, Many thanks for your explanation. Looking at your blog, am I correct that the XMP data at the stage it comes from the camera is embedded not a sidecar file and this only changes to a Sidecar file, if you subsequently alter the DNG in Lightroom and save? I think that would mean that if at some point I acquire an M10 and wanted to apply the in camera settings, I would need to alter the preferences below on Capture One, to tick the box (currently unticked) "Prefer Embedded XMP over Embedded IPTC. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268507-leica-m10-raw-file-dng-analysis/?do=findComment&comment=3196395'>More sharing options...
sandymc Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share #78 Posted January 25, 2017 Sandy, Many thanks for your explanation. Looking at your blog, am I correct that the XMP data at the stage it comes from the camera is embedded not a sidecar file and this only changes to a Sidecar file, if you subsequently alter the DNG in Lightroom and save? I think that would mean that if at some point I acquire an M10 and wanted to apply the in camera settings, I would need to alter the preferences below on Capture One, to tick the box (currently unticked) "Prefer Embedded XMP over Embedded IPTC. Wilson Wilson, You are correct that the XMP is embedded. What would happen once imported to Lightroom would depend on both the settings in LR, whether the files were tagged read-only, etc. But I think the current default would be for LR to store info in the embedded XMP. As I understand C1, assuming that you imported directly into C1: The C1 preference setting would make no difference, as C1 would not find a sidecar, and so always use XMP. But I do not believe that C1 would pay any attention to the information anyway, as it is Adobe specific. Sandy Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olgierdc Posted February 18, 2017 Share #79 Posted February 18, 2017 Do we know the lossless compression method for M10 DNG? Jpeg2000? It is a standard compression of DNG. It isn't jpeg2000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 15, 2017 Share #80 Posted July 15, 2017 BTW - A belated Thank You, Sandy. I just ran across your original blog note in researching the aperture value question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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