flyalf Posted January 21, 2017 Share #161 Posted January 21, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Could you use a long cable release, having the camera all ready for self timer beforehand? No issue getting a $5 metal cable release a bit slimy. Sounds awkward whatever you do! Slippery fish, camera on tripod, the catching and reeling in, removing hook etc. I'm assuming this is on shore as well and not in a tinnie on a rolling sea or in crocodile infested waters bagging a Barramundi. Do you have any fish selfies you'd be happy to share? Thanks, Its the same problem with remote (tried with other cameras) as with lang cable release. I really need two hands to handle the fish. Again, I thank you for proposals, but its differnet being behind a PC than being out in the field . Selfie; please see post #164 (reposted here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257897-why-x2-x-x-vario-q-and-sl-are-bldy-useless/), more photos from 2016: https://www.flickr.com/photos/25078442@N05/albums/72157671291036212 The shots in this album as well as the first photo also raises the question about battery. This is a 6 days trip away from electricity where I have to be very aware of what to bring along. Even though I bring 2 extra batteries I still have to be careful with battery consumption. So leaving camera on, etc is a no-go. But again, M10 seems to be a great camera, but for *me* the M240 is more versataile camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 Hi flyalf, Take a look here Leica M10 officially announced. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Naper Posted January 21, 2017 Share #162 Posted January 21, 2017 Pico, didn't you just get another M9?! I think the M10 spec looks brilliant. I'm not in the least interested in USB or wi-fi. But worth noting Macs switched to USB-C with the Macbook and this looks like the new standard -- for now, but of course, that may change yet again. Apple also dropped the SD card slot on the new Mac Book Pro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naper Posted January 21, 2017 Share #163 Posted January 21, 2017 But the point is, it seems there will never be another M for someone that needs to tether. Not now and most likely not ever, even if the M does increase resolution for which I had held out hope for. Don't you see the difference? Dropping the connectivity and a core need for a professional who needs to tether is the last thing I would expect Leica to do being. You might say that's not the end of the world but if they took some feature that you needed as a bare minimum and you weren't able to use an M ever again after I think you'd be pretty pissed too. What Leica does best is abandon its users. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I doubt this is the last M. There will be a M10P next year and the big feature will be USB probably USB C (much smaller) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 21, 2017 Share #164 Posted January 21, 2017 I wouldn't worry about it too much. I doubt this is the last M. There will be a M10P next year and the big feature will be USB probably USB C (much smaller) +1 I hope so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted January 21, 2017 Share #165 Posted January 21, 2017 John I agree with you that the M is defenaity not a studio camera, but as to the 24mpx ceiling I tend to disagree. Given the lineup of lenses available for the system I truly think the bar can and should be set higher. As to the M240 it was and still is an incredible body. I did not have a single complaint about it , in fact one of mine has been with me almost each and every day for the past 4 + years. In 4 years I have maybe taken 3 or 4 videos with it but I can tell you I have never accidentally hit that button so it never bothered me at all. But I tell you what I will miss if I was to trade for the 10. It would be the battery capacity. And for what ? 3.5 mm ? That is the biggest most bullshit gripe most of you had that I just could not get my head around. 3.5mm when almost all of you will end up sticking your slim trim new M10, in a Luigi case and stick a thumbs up on top. And then change you battery more often. The poor M240 will go down in history like the M5 , the best digital M ever made and the most misunderstood M240 the best? Best ever? You have very low standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwnheaney Posted January 21, 2017 Share #166 Posted January 21, 2017 I haven't had the pleasure of holding an M10 yet but as the owner of several film M and a bunch of M lenses this is the first time I am seriously considering a digital M. With the exception of the misstep with the M5 the M series design has basically remained unchanged since inception because it is optimal and that is why for many M users the fact that finally the M10 has almost the same proportions as the M3,2,4,5,6 is a very big deal. I agree with DickieT that a M10p or "dotless" version may be hard to resist Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted January 21, 2017 Share #167 Posted January 21, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I looked at an M10 earlier today. I enjoyed shooting the M240, but the SL is much easier to use, so it is mainly there as a backup. The m10 feels very well made. For some reason the Leica store felt the need to include the thumb rest. I wear glasses, so the M240 rangefinder is not ideal. The M10 focus spot is clearer/brighter and I can see the 28mm frames if I move my face around. The 35mm frame lines pretty much fill the frame. Shifting the point of focus away from the centre using live view is clunky (because you navigate by arrows rather .than a joy stick) but at least it's there. They didn't have an EVF so I couldn't try that. Apparently you need it if you want GPS. The absence of an electronic level is a negative point for me as is the rudimentary metering system inherited from past models. For pure rangefinder shooting, the camera is undoubtedly a bit more redefined than the M240. For the same money, I could buy a medium format Fuji, so we are in a rather specialised niche of a shrinking market. So I don't think that I will be upgrading at this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted January 22, 2017 Share #168 Posted January 22, 2017 Thanks, Do you know if M10 is like SL? The point with a selfie on swicth is that you dont need to "Operating a $7000 camera with slimed up hands" as you do with menues. As to slimy hands and selfie with large fish, I kind of doubt that yo have done this many times based on you answer. No offence meant, but please explain how you do this. Keeping in mind that you need to keep the fish above the water as short as possible and that you cannot wipe the fish because that will damage its skin, same lifting it with dry hands: The fish should not be kept to long in net after catch and before photo because it will then regain strenght. When you then try to lift it up from net it wiil then spend all its regained strenght to get free and the risk is huge that it will get hurt or that the fisher will have to let it go so that it doesnt get hurt. So you have a short time after the catch where the fish is in a kind of shock, and where you dont have time to 1) Place the fish/net 2) find the rag, 3) wipe you hands, 4) fiddle with menues, 5) trigger the camera with dry hands, 6) moisturize your hands (so not to damage the slime layer on skin of fish), 6) lift the fish and 7) move in position for the photo. You have 12s between 5) and completing 7). Please also remember that it takes some time to get the fish out of net. And you should also do 1) to 7) in as short time as possible, let say max 12- 20s (IMO). You shou ideally only do this once because the stress on fish, that is you have one chance to document the fish of a lifetime in one frame. So what I do : 1) Place the fish/net 2) trigger the camera with slimy hands 3) lift the fish ,and 4) move in position for the photo. As a prerequisite I have placed the camera on tripod and prefocused before I start fishing, but I have not turned camera on, but do this in 2). The fish is then normally in the kind of shock and "cooperative". So if the shot fires with fish in posistion I release fish immediatly. I know not many have these kind of requirements, but please understand and respect others techniques before critizing. I will for sure respect your technique as long as you dont hurt the fish to much in making your selfie. I have not touched an M10 yet to explore its new menu structure and operation, but it is only sensible to imagine that an M10 Favorites menu and Drive Mode menu will operate like an SL rather than like a Q or X2. On the point and shoots (Q and X1, X2, X typ 113, etc), the self timer is a one-time use item with a menu separate from the primary camera configuration menu. But on the M9, SL, and the M240, the self timer configuration options are part of the overall camera configuration menu and persist No matter whether the self timer switch is on the on/off button or in a menu, if your hands are slimy/dirty/grimey/oily, you shouldn't be handling a camera. If you're as successful at catching fish as your discussion of setting up a tripod for repeated use in making selfies implies, you should also be sensible enough to have a rag stuffed in your belt so you can quickly wipe your hands off to handle the camera between moments of handling a fish, and maybe a wet rag to rewet your hands before juggling the fish. Of course I haven't taken selfies with my hands covered in fish slime ... that's my point: I wipe my hands off before I operate a camera. I have taken self portraits with a caught fish, used a camera when working on heavy machinery (to document a problem that I've discovered or am fixing), etc etc. I ALWAYS find a way to clean my hands off before I guck up a camera with crud. If you have the forethought and time to set up a camera to make selfies with a tripod like that, you can also set the camera to self timer mode on the tripod or install a remote or cable release to operate the shutter without touching the camera while having the camera ready for the upcoming shot. The notion of handling a Leica camera with my hands full of fish slime makes my skin crawl, and my head reels with the thought of having to have the camera cleaned of all that slime periodically. I'd find some other way, ANY other way, of operating the camera to do the job.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted January 22, 2017 Share #169 Posted January 22, 2017 The M10 is what the M8 was supposed to be. This is why the M11 will be the ripe product that I will probably buy. 8fps Instantaneous startup Nervous machine Infinite buffer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted January 22, 2017 Share #170 Posted January 22, 2017 I went to my pals at Leica Soho (shopped with them when they were still Kurland at a different location) and spent some time playing with the M10. Felt more like a film M in terms of size, seemed a bit heavier, had some heft to it, felt like quality, the viewfinder was terrific but it is still a stretch to see outside the 28mm frame lines. The live view was particularly nice, allowed one to focus using the back screen (has focus peaking color thing when in focus, the guys there said it was better than what came before, and you can zoom up to 10x on what you are focusing) so I am not sure why anyone would need a EVF attached, but different strokes and all that. VERY TEMPTED! I really love the quality of what I get out of the Q and this is essentially the same sensor -- I say essentially because the physics of M lenses to the sensor require somewhat different engineering of the sensor vs SL or Q. I liked the locking for the ISO dial, can't slip up there. Really did feel like I was using a film camera with the advantages of digital -- new ISO every frame, etc. Wasn't crazy about the sound of the shutter, but I never bought or sold camera based on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmathias Posted January 22, 2017 Share #171 Posted January 22, 2017 I have used and owned an M6 & M9, I still own a M (type 240) & an SL. I have used them all with my Leica M lenses. I loved the the feel —companionship — of the M6, M9, and SL (heavier, but still an excellent match to M lenses). I was never disappointed in any Leica product. The M 240 which I do still use regularly, I am not so crazy about. My main issue with the 240 is the lack of high level dynamic range — the bright whites to blown-out over-exposure area — goes to over-exposed white ungracefully. There is not enough separation between Zones 8-9-10 in Ansel Adams terms. The SL and M9 simply don't look "tonally strained" by extreme highlights. The M 240 often does. When using the 240, I have to protect over-exposed areas in setting my manual exposure. The M 10 seems like the answer to my dreams. I haven't seen one yet, but if it is not sensitive to blowing out whites, and is the size of my old M6 TTL, with higher ISO sensitivity, than I am very happy! All of the other things are just details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 22, 2017 Share #172 Posted January 22, 2017 I really love the quality of what I get out of the Q and this is essentially the same sensor -- The M10 has a completely different sensor....its not a modified version of the Q sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 22, 2017 Share #173 Posted January 22, 2017 I have not touched an M10 yet to explore its new menu structure and operation, but it is only sensible to imagine that an M10 Favorites menu and Drive Mode menu will operate like an SL rather than like a Q or X2. On the point and shoots (Q and X1, X2, X typ 113, etc), the self timer is a one-time use item with a menu separate from the primary camera configuration menu. But on the M9, SL, and the M240, the self timer configuration options are part of the overall camera configuration menu and persist No matter whether the self timer switch is on the on/off button or in a menu, if your hands are slimy/dirty/grimey/oily, you shouldn't be handling a camera. If you're as successful at catching fish as your discussion of setting up a tripod for repeated use in making selfies implies, you should also be sensible enough to have a rag stuffed in your belt so you can quickly wipe your hands off to handle the camera between moments of handling a fish, and maybe a wet rag to rewet your hands before juggling the fish. Of course I haven't taken selfies with my hands covered in fish slime ... that's my point: I wipe my hands off before I operate a camera. I have taken self portraits with a caught fish, used a camera when working on heavy machinery (to document a problem that I've discovered or am fixing), etc etc. I ALWAYS find a way to clean my hands off before I guck up a camera with crud. If you have the forethought and time to set up a camera to make selfies with a tripod like that, you can also set the camera to self timer mode on the tripod or install a remote or cable release to operate the shutter without touching the camera while having the camera ready for the upcoming shot. The notion of handling a Leica camera with my hands full of fish slime makes my skin crawl, and my head reels with the thought of having to have the camera cleaned of all that slime periodically. I'd find some other way, ANY other way, of operating the camera to do the job.. I have used X1, X2, M9 ond M240. X1, M9 and M240 have/had a self-timer setting on switch. Because of this I dont need to handle camera with slimy hands, I only need to use forefinger. Please feel free to handle you camera however you like. As to using it for flyfishing I will not waste more time discussing with anyone without prior knowlegde. Best of wishes with photography and learning more about flyfishing for trout, or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted January 22, 2017 Share #174 Posted January 22, 2017 I have no desire to discuss fly fishing with you at all. Even discussing selfies is a bit ridiculous. For that kind of stuff, a smartphone is perfectly appropriate. The M10 doesn't have a self-timer option on the power switch. Maybe you shouldn't buy an M10 if you can't figure out how to operate it and get the photo that you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted January 23, 2017 Share #175 Posted January 23, 2017 I've been using Leicas for a long time, and they have been the one constant equipment item through the decades which included nearly 50 years of professional application. I've often had specific requirements that other photographers didn't have or didn't care about. So be it. As a result I've often used odd/homemade devices that others didn't see the point of. So what. Also, little point in complaining that manufacturers didn't seem to understand my specific needs because I realize there aren't 5 let alone thousands of other photographers with my specific requirements. Leica M's have always been about being simple instruments that disappear in your hands as their primary virtue. The M10 seems to head back in that direction. I've used glasses most of my life, but the M viewfinder/rangefinder are ideal for me; especially the M3 viewfinder and those closest to that one. So. An M10 with more responsive electronics, a better viewfinder, a bit better weather resistance, a simpler and better organized menu structure, a body the thickness of an M6 sounds like a step forward. I'm likely to stay with the M240 for a while, as it's good enough for me at the moment, but if an M-D version were to arrive, I don't think I could resist trading my Monochrom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 24, 2017 Share #176 Posted January 24, 2017 I have no desire to discuss fly fishing with you at all. Even discussing selfies is a bit ridiculous. For that kind of stuff, a smartphone is perfectly appropriate. ... Thanks a lot, your decision is most appreciated. Best of luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted January 26, 2017 Share #177 Posted January 26, 2017 I went to my pals at Leica Soho (shopped with them when they were still Kurland at a different location) and spent some time playing with the M10. Felt more like a film M in terms of size, seemed a bit heavier, had some heft to it, felt like quality, the viewfinder was terrific but it is still a stretch to see outside the 28mm frame lines. The live view was particularly nice, allowed one to focus using the back screen (has focus peaking color thing when in focus, the guys there said it was better than what came before, and you can zoom up to 10x on what you are focusing) so I am not sure why anyone would need a EVF attached, but different strokes and all that. VERY TEMPTED! I really love the quality of what I get out of the Q and this is essentially the same sensor -- I say essentially because the physics of M lenses to the sensor require somewhat different engineering of the sensor vs SL or Q. I liked the locking for the ISO dial, can't slip up there. Really did feel like I was using a film camera with the advantages of digital -- new ISO every frame, etc. Wasn't crazy about the sound of the shutter, but I never bought or sold camera based on that. Steve, it felt like a film camera to me too. I've been waiting for this camera for a long time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Share #178 Posted January 29, 2017 The M10 is what the M8 was supposed to be. This is why the M11 will be the ripe product that I will probably buy. 8fps Instantaneous startup Nervous machine Infinite buffer. "Nervous machine"! lol, Ned you've made my day Like a wild horse, ehh!?! Tried it out in the store - very reactive! And being a digital Leica (since when do care about those?) one can be trigger-happy at no expense and non-stop. So the M10 is (ALSO) a machine for nervousness galore. Cheers, Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted January 30, 2017 Share #179 Posted January 30, 2017 Leica has a link to facebook for more info about the M10. It looks as if you need to be facebook member to see it. Is Leica aware of this ? And is this their intention ? In my eyes complete nonsense - hardly any product page is only accessible/visible for members. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted January 31, 2017 Share #180 Posted January 31, 2017 "Nervous machine"! lol, Ned you've made my day Like a wild horse, ehh!?! Tried it out in the store - very reactive! And being a digital Leica (since when do care about those?) one can be trigger-happy at no expense and non-stop. So the M10 is (ALSO) a machine for nervousness galore. Cheers, Simon Wild Horse, Crazy Bull, dangerous Hornet. Actually, all of these are built into my film Ms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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