almoore Posted January 19, 2017 Share #81 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) There are thousands of pros who tether. That is just a common reality you are clearly unaware of. I doubt very much that there are 'thousands of pros who tether' Ms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Hi almoore, Take a look here Leica M10 officially announced. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
anupmc Posted January 19, 2017 Share #82 Posted January 19, 2017 Uh....no it's obvious what the through put of usb 2 is 480Mb/s, please don't try that card. I doubt that, my guess is at least 10 seconds for a dng but I would love to be wrong on that. Leica have said themselves that the wifi will not be viable for tethered shooting. I very much doubt the small wifi antenna inside the M will be up to the task of sustained writing. There are more variables involved with tethered shooting than specs. And it's only an iOS app - this is not a solution in any way. Sorry Paul, it's pretty obvious to me you're not quite sure of what you speak. The M9 has a pretty weak processor to begin with (by today's standard), while the USB 2.0 specification says 480Mbps theoretical throughput, the M9 doesn't support anywhere near that rate. It's been 6 years since the introduction of the M9, that's a lifetime in the networking industry. It is very very likely the M10's WLAN data transmission rate can match, if not exceed, the M9's USB port throughput. Can you show us where Leica says WiFi is not for tethering? And on which Camera exactly did they say that? URL please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted January 19, 2017 Share #83 Posted January 19, 2017 John, stop being so churlish and snarky. If you don't like the conversation leave it alone and join one of the other threads. You are clearly here just to stir trouble. There are thousands of pros who tether. That is just a common reality you are clearly unaware of. At first I was also somewhat dissapointed for the lack of USB (a MF handgrip had been ok), but I still don't want to write of the Wifipossibillity, the 802.11n standard is very fast. If it works it's an even better option in my opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 19, 2017 Share #84 Posted January 19, 2017 Sorry Paul, it's pretty obvious to me you're not quite sure of what you speak. The M9 has a pretty weak processor to begin with (by today's standard), while the USB 2.0 specification says 480Mbps theoretical throughput, the M9 doesn't support anywhere near that rate. It's been 6 years since the introduction of the M9, that's a lifetime in the networking industry. It is very very likely the M10's WLAN data transmission rate can match, if not exceed, the M9's USB port throughput. Can you show us where Leica says WiFi is not for tethering? And on which Camera exactly did they say that? URL please. I'm glad you feel so sure about my abilities. I don't share your need to justify myself on that. http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/01/18/looking-back-move-forward/ However, the WLAN interface cannot as yet eliminate the need for tethered-shooting solutions in the studio. For this purpose, the M/M-P (typ 240) with their multi-function handgrip continue to be available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted January 19, 2017 Share #85 Posted January 19, 2017 Well, he may know about many things, but not about networking... The statement below for example, is laughable to be quite honest. ... ... I very much doubt the small wifi antenna inside the M will be up to the task of sustained writing. .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted January 19, 2017 Share #86 Posted January 19, 2017 I'm glad you feel so sure about my abilities. I don't share your need to justify myself on that. http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/01/18/looking-back-move-forward/ Accepted. Leica may have their reasons for that statement, but I can assure you it's not from any performance limitations on the part of the 802.11n (compared to USB or otherwise), it's more likely to do with the application layer - for example Leica Image Shuttle being tightly coupled to USB PTP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leica Fanatic Posted January 19, 2017 Share #87 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) With regards mourning the loss of USB, I've no doubt there's a similar discussion on Apple forums about the loss of the headphone jack on iPhone 7's? Things come, things go. Nothing stays the same but then, nothing changes either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwj Posted January 19, 2017 Share #88 Posted January 19, 2017 1st point you make is wrong. The M9 tethers perfectly well. It's connection was rock solid and it got the job done. Yes you can still use lenses on the SL, sure, it's only another £5500! It does not have auto aperture and you have to focus erroneously with a stopped down lens with an evf in a dark studio. 2nd Point. Backwards compatibility of lenses sure is excellent and it's something I have been appreciative of. However abandoning users is whole other another thing. Lets talk about the R and now the S. Go read the various forums on what S users currently think on the matter! Forgot about the M9 but it's still only a blip in the scheme of the M line. I did concede the R was abandoned, but I must have missed the announcement about the S. Or are the users just grumpy? (as an aside I believe Leica has spread themselves too thin and should drop the S, and keep the M, SL, TL, and compacts. Already that is more than most and too much) I do read and participate in other forums by the way, and I'm yet to see a post recommending an M of any sort for studio based tethered work. I'd love to stand corrected on that point, but as far as I can see, you are the only one who demands this feature in an M. Most people would use the right tool for the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 19, 2017 Share #89 Posted January 19, 2017 Forgot about the M9 but it's still only a blip in the scheme of the M line. I did concede the R was abandoned, but I must have missed the announcement about the S. Or are the users just grumpy? (as an aside I believe Leica has spread themselves too thin and should drop the S, and keep the M, SL, TL, and compacts. Already that is more than most and too much) I do read and participate in other forums by the way, and I'm yet to see a post recommending an M of any sort for studio based tethered work. I'd love to stand corrected on that point, but as far as I can see, you are the only one who demands this feature in an M. Most people would use the right tool for the job. I can't forget about the M9 that is the whole point. Well thanks for your input but it is the right tool for the job and has been for several years. There is a very long list of people like me using the M in this way that don't visit forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 19, 2017 Share #90 Posted January 19, 2017 I can't forget about the M9 that is the whole point. Well thanks for your input but it is the right tool for the job and has been for several years. There is a very long list of people like me using the M in this way that don't visit forums. What did you do before Leica brought out the M9 with the tethering capability? Were you not a professional photographer then? In what way does the existence of a non-tethering Leica camera impact the tethering capability of the M9 and the M (Typ 240) with its adapter? I rather think Leica used to make other cameras that didn't tether, either. As has been quoted above, the M (Typ 240) is still being made. It does not come apart at the seams just now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 19, 2017 Share #91 Posted January 19, 2017 If You have a look into the M10 You will see, there is no space for USB. Leica has priorised other things to build in this camera. Thethered shooting ist not the first thing to use the M10 for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 19, 2017 Share #92 Posted January 19, 2017 What did you do before Leica brought out the M9 with the tethering capability? Were you not a professional photographer then? In what way does the existence of a non-tethering Leica camera impact the tethering capability of the M9 and the M (Typ 240) with its adapter? I rather think Leica used to make other cameras that didn't tether, either. As has been quoted above, the M (Typ 240) is still being made. It does not come apart at the seams just now. It does indicate where Leica's priorities lie and whilst nothing in a new release ever affects the performance of the predecessors, it is nevertheless important to many people to have a feel for the direction in which the company is taking its products. For example, I wouldn't have made a heavy investment in M lenses over a period of time if I hadn't been confident that future Ms would be desirable cameras. Other people may care less about what they'll be using and doing in the future but we're not all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 19, 2017 Share #93 Posted January 19, 2017 What did you do before Leica brought out the M9 with the tethering capability? Were you not a professional photographer then? In what way does the existence of a non-tethering Leica camera impact the tethering capability of the M9 and the M (Typ 240) with its adapter? I rather think Leica used to make other cameras that didn't tether, either. As has been quoted above, the M (Typ 240) is still being made. It does not come apart at the seams just now. I really don't think that term professional is a great descriptive word for forums. It's provocative and also people don't understand both the chasm and nuance within it. I have been working as a photographer and artist since the early nineties. Back then it was mostly all film and we shot polaroids in place of tethering. I have been working with digital since the Kodak DCS560. Digital and tethering practically changed the industry overnight and was one of the key reasons the industry adopted digital, it revolutionised workflow overnight for better and for some worse too but now it is inescapable. In the beginning I worked with a variety of cameras but primarily Canon, and then Phase One but Leica has always been in my life. Infact, I am the third generation in my family to use a Leica in this way, it has a significant place in my past. I don't use Canon so much now, i still use Phase One. I came to Leica for the lenses and have found the M an invaluable tool for what I do. I have searched far and wide but there is no replacement for the system. If the M and it's lenses, the Noctilux etc weren't so unique this wouldn't much so much a problem. Aesthetics that stem from equipment that you have specifically chosen become intrinsic to your work, especially when used for such a period of time. You could say I am hook line and sinkered for it. It becomes part of your signature and that is recognised by the people who hire a photographer. The Leica M has always been marketed directly to professionals until a very recent turn of events. When the M 240 was launched one of the key points was it could be directly tethered. A non tethering Leica does not effect the existence of the M9 or M 240. But it means that no M in the future will either unless they create a body with the capability to do so. So it effective becomes an EOL for that purpose unless you can struggle on with non supported software and infrastructure - that is not going to last long. Despite the fact I have needs that the M10 does not fulfill - I still think this is an amazing camera, probably the best since the M9 and I would most likely buy if it had the base functionality I need. It is short of the pixel count I ultimately need, and have been vocal about, but it would still fulfil certain needs and while not perfect it is workable in the same way the 18MP M9 has been workable, and this one seems in lots of ways on another level to the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 19, 2017 Share #94 Posted January 19, 2017 It does indicate where Leica's priorities lie and whilst nothing in a new release ever affects the performance of the predecessors, it is nevertheless important to many people to have a feel for the direction in which the company is taking its products. Yes, I agree. It is not always helpful to be told that nothing has changed, your present camera still works, etc. The availability of the USB port couldn't be more inconsequential for me but I'd be wary about being so dismissive about somebody else's requirements. If Leica had taken the M camera in the other direction and decided to move the M to an EVF-only camera I'd have been quite troubled by that, irrespective of the fact that I already have more than one good M camera with a functioning rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 19, 2017 Share #95 Posted January 19, 2017 Have you considered a Leica SL or Sony A7RII (with adapted Leica lenses) for the very specific studio work that you do? Or have you answered that already? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 19, 2017 Share #96 Posted January 19, 2017 Have you considered a Leica SL or Sony A7RII (with adapted Leica lenses) for the very specific studio work that you do? Or have you answered that already? Hi. The Sony is not suitable. The Leica SL is what Leica wants us to use and i can't help but feel this is mainly about selling more bodies to people who need them. But I am heavily invested in M lenses and each one was carefully selected for what it does and for what I need. Using them on the SL stopped down is not really a solution, it's erroneous and with an EVF in an often dark studio or location it's a messy proposition and therefore not very workable in my opinion. The Leica S is a bit more inline with what I need, but there is no equivalent susbtitute for some lenses and that system is either winding down or needs to time to be fixed to consider. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 19, 2017 Share #97 Posted January 19, 2017 Paul, I too have shot digital since the late 90s , in fact my company was a beta site for Earnest Green who were the industry distributors for Kodak, and also we were beta site for Scitex Leaf. I do not understand your Rage....? You will be able to shoot in your studio, view you proof on you Mac screen instantly, then when your shoot is finished take out the card and download your files. It's called shooting DNG and JPEG medium. View the JPEG file on screen , hence your Polaroid proof. I think for a profetional tool there are a lot more important features missing in the M10. And hard wire connection is not one of them. No, that's your uses and they make no difference to mine. My reaction stems from everyone trying to tell me that my needs are invalid and I should accept something that will not work when they have no idea about what I do. When I shoot there is a team of 10-50 people and many of these people are watching the screen as images roll in, tending to elements of the shoot - if you review the images 20 minutes after the shot has happened then it's far too late. Some of these people watching are paying a very vast sums of money for these shoots and they expect to be able to see things happen as they develop. YMMV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 19, 2017 Share #98 Posted January 19, 2017 When I shoot there is a team of 10-50 people You are Annie Leibovitz and I claim my prize. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwj Posted January 19, 2017 Share #99 Posted January 19, 2017 No, that's your uses and they make no difference to mine. My reaction stems from everyone trying to tell me that my needs are invalid and I should accept something that will not work when they have no idea about what I do. When I shoot there is a team of 10-50 people and many of these people are watching the screen as images roll in, tending to elements of the shoot - if you review the images 20 minutes after the shot has happened then it's far too late. Some of these people watching are paying a very vast sums of money for these shoots and they expect to be able to see things happen as they develop. YMMV We don't think your needs are invalid. You use a camera in a perfectly valid way. The problem is that you use an M in the way that Leica obviously doesn't care about supporting. They think that you should be using the SL or S, which you say won't cut it for you, fair enough. I'm not you and don't know how you shoot, but I believe that you are in the far minority of M users and that most don't tether their M's in the studio. On the other hand, whose to say that the next M introduced won't be an M typ260 which does exactly what you want next year? Or that the M10-P won't support tethering? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 19, 2017 Share #100 Posted January 19, 2017 ... A non tethering Leica does not effect the existence of the M9 or M 240. But it means that no M in the future will either unless they create a body with the capability to do so. ... Thank you for the explanation of your situation. Still, I don't think this assumption is warranted. After all, Leica continued producing color-enabled cameras, even after the introduction of the Monochrom, or cameras with screens after the 60, and so on. And they explicitly stated that the M (Typ 240) was still being produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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