Zeiss ZM 4/18 and 4,5/21 now listed as DISCONTINUED

[james.liam]

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Interesting development:

 

http://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/en_us/camera_lenses/zeiss-ikon/cbiogont4521zm.html

[michaelwj]

Not new.

It has been the case for around 12 months at least i believe.

 

Edit: Nearly 2 years. Link here

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238465-zm-184-and-2145-discontinued/

[james.liam]

I take it back. 

[michaelwj]

They must still have stock though - else they would be removed like the 2/85mm I presume?

[Ronazle]

While I can understand the removal (low sales, problems with digital) of the wonderful 21 C Biogon, I cannot imagine why the 18mm Distagon was discontinued - it is the best extreme wa I have ever used or own. If an extreme WA goes with me somewhere, it is the Distagon. Regards, Ron

[NB23]

While I can understand the removal (low sales, problems with digital) of the wonderful 21 C Biogon, I cannot imagine why the 18mm Distagon was discontinued - it is the best extreme wa I have ever used or own. If an extreme WA goes with me somewhere, it is the Distagon. Regards, Ron

If it's so good you should have bought two, to counter the low sales.

[Ronazle]

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Hmmmm.....Your comment contains the assumption that it was discontinued for low sales which is likely but not  a sure thing - there are other reasons for discontinuance, particularly when you are using a foreign factory for manufacture. Regards, Ron

[NB23]

Hmmmm.....Your comment contains the assumption that it was discontinued for low sales which is likely but not a sure thing - there are other reasons for discontinuance, particularly when you are using a foreign factory for manufacture. Regards, Ron

You tell us, then.

[Ronazle]

Ok, I'll make an effort seeing that you asked so nicely.  It is my assumption that most of the same state-of-the-art equipment is used in the production of a large number of different lenses.  After production of a predetermined number which no doubt equals the estimated demand for a given period of time the equipment is reconfigured for producing a different lens. If sales and distribution is far greater than the pre-production estimates there is a non-availability.  One does not just call down to the "shop" floor and ask them to quickly go into new production; the production equipment may very well be allocated for years into the future.   When the product is designed and owned by a company on one continent and production engineered and produced under contract on another continent everything is made somewhat more complex if not more difficult.

 

I haven't inquired to any dealers to determine if the lens (F4 18mm Distagon) is still available, although out of production (I really don't need a second one). Most likely, given the limited camera applications for the F4.5 C Biogon, it probably will not be produced in the future; but the 18mm, assuming mine is typical, probably will go into production again (my assumption).  On the other hand, it may be an unwanted competitor for the Zeiss 15mm lens? My point:  availability is not a particularly simple thing, especially for a highly precision item not in continuous production (which in and of itself is a complicating factor). Regards, Ron 

[derleicaman]

I would agree that the 18 is an incredible lens. In side by side testing with a 18 SEM, I could see no major differences between the two. Performance was virtually identical.

 

I own a number of other ZM lenses; the 50/1.5, 50/2, 28/2.8 and the 25/2.8. All stellar performers for a reasonable price. 

 

Most of these lenses, with the exception of the 85 and 15, are produced by Cosina for Zeiss in Japan. Of course, the lenses are produced in batches just like any other modern lens. Once the stocks are exhausted, a decision is made to make another batch or discontinue the lens. Perhaps these two lenses are extreme niche lenses with low demand, so making more would not make economic sense. I believe the 85 was discontinued some time ago as well. I wonder if the other lenses in the line will suffer the same fate when their stocks are exhausted.

 

The only new lens in ZM mount is the 35/14. Great lens, but I already own the 35/1.4 ASPH, so I have little interest in that one. One can only hope that Zeiss keeps the line alive as it would be a great loss to Leica M shooters if they kill it off. I would love to see new models, or the existing lenses with 6 bit coding. Then again, they already have most of the bases covered with the current line up. I also appreciate the design philosophy used in the ZM line. Achieve high optical performance without resorting to expensive features like aspherical surfaces, etc. while keeping the size small. I also appreciate thoughtful design touches like the bayonet mount hoods. Simple and reliable. I cringe when I look at the direction Zeiss has taken lately with the OTUS and similar lenses. Great performance at the price of bulk and odd looks!

[james.liam]

Their eye is (necessarily) on the E mount. Although, they do surprising, unexpected or puzzling things like the splendid 1,4/35 ZM, Otus for DSLRs that can't easily or accurately focus them (I have owned at one time or another 4 ZFs and it was never accurate or easy with the Green Dot) or the complex $4.6k non-RF 2,8/15 still technically in production while killing the world-class RF-coupled 2/85. I think Ronazle's explanation most sensible; a factory has a set maximum output and a decision has to be made what the lines and their machinery will make for a set period of time, hence the batch phenomenon.

 

The gradual loss of a solid non-Leica M option is sad. The 4,5/21C was a WA design pinnacle for film cameras and they aren't likely to tweak it for digital; there's not a market to sustain sales especially after the SEM.

That and the 35C are authentic Barnack spiritual descendants...superlative and tiny.

 

Perhaps if Zeiss buys up some of Leica as they are rumored to be considering, things may change. Who knows.

[Ko.Fe.]

Hmmmm.....Your comment contains the assumption that it was discontinued for low sales which is likely but not  a sure thing - there are other reasons for discontinuance, particularly when you are using a foreign factory for manufacture. Regards, Ron

 Very unlikely it is the factor, since outsourcing became the norm.

Viogtlander brand has same kind of lenses. Zeiss was overpriced for the same, even slower 21 lens.  And here is wider Viogtlander lens for less price as well. 

 

Also, I don't think slow lenses are popular these days. 

[Jared]

<snip>

 

Also, I don't think slow lenses are popular these days.

Very true, and I don't really know why. Now that most cameras are competent to produce good image quality in excess of ISO 6,000, I would have thought slightly slower, more compact, lighter lenses would have an obvious place, especially wide angle lenses where near infinite depth of field is often desirable.

 

That being said, I had one of the tiny Zeiss 21's with my M(240) for a very short while but returned it. I was expecting the color casts at the edges and was prepared to fix that in software after the fact, but the lens had more field curvature than I wanted. I'm sad to see smaller, slower lenses being phased out since a compact kit is a big part of the draw for a rangefinder shooter, but this particular lens is no great loss in my opinion.

[james.liam]

 

Also, I don't think slow lenses are popular these days. 

 

 

The success of the Super Elmars and reintroduction of a 28 Summaron seem to suggest otherwise.

[luigi bertolotti]

The 18 looks to be still around at dealers... and at less than half of its Leica competitor could be still a good choice (not for me... when want a 18, there's my old Distagon f4 for Contarex  ... with adapter...)