Talk me into buying an SL?

[geetee1972]

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Hi all,

 

My first post here, perhaps if you all do a great job not my last

 

I've been using a Sony A7rII for a year now and my problem is I loath it. I don't think that will prompt much debate. I'm seriously considering selling everything and buying a Leica SL but it's a huge commitment and I need some encouragement and in particular a few questions answered. I've searched on the forum and there are lots of references to these questions but nothing definitive that I can find (though I am sure it's there somewhere).

 

First - what options exist for using off camera flash; do Nikon triggers work on the SL hotshoe and would a Leica flash unit then work with those?

Second - what options exist other than Leica branded units for on-camera flash? The Leica branded ones a ridiculously expensive.

 

I shoot a Hasselblad film camera in addition to the Sony (odd combination I know) and focus on street, portraiture and documentary genres with some abstract and environment also. I tend to use the Hasselblad for portraits and the Sony for everything else but do quite often use the Sony for stuido portaits. If I replace the Sony, whatever I get needs to be able to shoot with flash at some point hence the question.

 

Other than that my other option would be a second hand M240 and perhaps keep the A7rII for studio work but I worry about being able to focus a rangefinder. I tried an SL the other day and loved it so much I almsot bought it there and then, but i need to sell the Sony kit first and figure out the flash options for the Leica. 

 

Thanks all and i look forward to your replies.

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[graeme_clarke]

I'm pretty much in the same boat - see my thread I started about a month ago "Sell R lenses to fund SL lenses purchase? - advice please".  I haven't done anything yet though the majority of replies suggest selling the 2 zooms (21-35 and 28-90) but keep the primes.

 

I've been using a Sony A7R mk1.  Although it works well off a monopod with my 280 and 2x in bright light, wide open (f8) with shutter speeds of about 1/1000s, with subjects that stand still,  I've had problems with camera shake at longer exposures on a tripod trying to use a 100mm macro lens close up - a known problem that I believe the mk11 with in built stabilisation has rectified.  I've also got a fat thumb that insists on pressing the wrong button on the back!!!  Most of the time I use my DMR which is still plodding along.

 

All in all, I'll read the replies to your thread with interest.

 

Graeme

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

My first post here, perhaps if you all do a great job not my last

 

I've been using a Sony A7rII for a year now and my problem is I loath it. I don't think that will prompt much debate. I'm seriously considering selling everything and buying a Leica SL but it's a huge commitment and I need some encouragement and in particular a few questions answered. I've searched on the forum and there are lots of references to these questions but nothing definitive that I can find (though I am sure it's there somewhere).

 

First - what options exist for using off camera flash; do Nikon triggers work on the SL hotshoe and would a Leica flash unit then work with those?

Second - what options exist other than Leica branded units for on-camera flash? The Leica branded ones a ridiculously expensive.

 

I shoot a Hasselblad film camera in addition to the Sony (odd combination I know) and focus on street, portraiture and documentary genres with some abstract and environment also. I tend to use the Hasselblad for portraits and the Sony for everything else but do quite often use the Sony for stuido portaits. If I replace the Sony, whatever I get needs to be able to shoot with flash at some point hence the question.

 

Other than that my other option would be a second hand M240 and perhaps keep the A7rII for studio work but I worry about being able to focus a rangefinder. I tried an SL the other day and loved it so much I almsot bought it there and then, but i need to sell the Sony kit first and figure out the flash options for the Leica. 

 

Thanks all and i look forward to your replies.

 

I trigger Elinchrom lights with their remote trigger and sometimes I use a Leice SF-40 flash to do the same in my studio. I started with the TL lenses but sold them all and bought M lenses as well as the 60 and 100 R Macro lenses. These all work flawlessly with the SL. I love the focus peaking and magnification (although I tend to use peaking more when out and about and magnification in the studio.

 

The SL for me has only one thing I am not keen on and that is its weight.

 

I sold a Sony A7RII for the SL and three lenses. I have not regretted the move back to Leica. (Used to have a Digilux 1) and before that a M6. My problem with the M is that I cannot focus it ! I just cannot do it as quickly as I can with the SL, so hoping the next M allows me to focus it in reasonable time so I don't miss the image!

[thighslapper]

The pin-out on Leica is  nikon based but you will not get (as far as I am aware) any non-Leica gear to access TTL or other more complex functions.

 

Most nikon pin-out flash triggers will work ....... Yongnuo work fine and cost almost nothing ...... as do their own Speedlights in manual and auto on the camera which is fine for most things. 

 

Unless you do a lot of dedicated flash work that may be enough ...... but if you are a full TTL fan you will have to fork out for one of Leicas. With the current firmware they are slightly better behaved than with some other Leica cameras. Leica has never been great with flash implementation. 

 

You could get the SL+24-90 and find it will fulfil 95% of your photographic needs...... and you could add other manual lenses with adapter at whatever price point you can afford for the other 5%.

[geetee1972]

 

Unless you do a lot of dedicated flash work that may be enough

It certainly will be; thank you for confirming this.

 

 

You could get the SL+24-90 and find it will fulfil 95% of your photographic needs

 

I'm not a fan of that lens; one of the disappointments of the Sony is that while the body is compact, the lenses are, mostly, huge. Besides I already have a 50mm Zeiss C Sonnar I use on the Sony and would aim to use that on the SL, adding perhaps a 75mm Summarit for portrait work.

[douglas fry]

I shoot with the SL every day with a flash trigger for commercial photography, usually portraits. The Pocket Wizards work really well and have proved very reliable over many years, and they trigger Elinchrom Quadra Ranger flash heads

 

For on camera flash (something I do very rarely) I use an old Nikon set in manual mode, usually about 1/32 or 1/64 power and mix flash with ambient if the SL is set to about 6400ISO, that combo works well too, though a better 'team' is an M240 and flash as its smaller and neater...

 

I sold all my Canon 1DX kit a while ago now and the results through Leica are much better, not least the ergonomics

[LocalHero1953]

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I don't think there is any off camera wireless flash option that will give you TTL control. And on-camera or by flash cord (Nikon) you will only get TTL control with a Leica flash.

Other than that, the system works well in dumb mode with Nikon-compatible triggers: I use pocketwizards with Nikon speedlights.

I'm not sure I would want TTL control for off-camera lighting - for most scenarios, I would want some sort of manual control to get light balancing right. But I am certainly not a studio expert, and YMMV.

[geetee1972]

I don't think there is any off camera wireless flash option that will give you TTL control. And on-camera or by flash cord (Nikon) you will only get TTL control with a Leica flash.

Other than that, the system works well in dumb mode with Nikon-compatible triggers: I use pocketwizards with Nikon speedlights.

Thanks again - I'm not bothered about TTL. I'm happy to use a light meter and the histogram.

[thighslapper]

It certainly will be; thank you for confirming this.

 

 

I'm not a fan of that lens; one of the disappointments of the Sony is that while the body is compact, the lenses are, mostly, huge. Besides I already have a 50mm Zeiss C Sonnar I use on the Sony and would aim to use that on the SL, adding perhaps a 75mm Summarit for portrait work.

 

the Zeiss and Summarit will be fine. 

 

the 24-90 offers enormous advantages to go with its enormous (relative to manual lenses) size. 

 

a lot of people say never ..... then end up with one and manage to convince themselves it's really not that big as a trade off for zoom, superb imagery, OIS and AF .....

[ramarren]

I don't like "talking people into buying" anything. I believe you should figure out what works for you and buy whatever that is.

 

I also had a Sony A7 and didn't like it much. I found it didn't perform as well as I had hoped with my lenses, never saw much in the Sony lenses to attract me, and that it was otherwise rather clunky to use. 

 

The Leica SL performs brilliantly with its dedicated SL24-90 zoom lens, brilliantly with all my Leica R and M lenses, and brilliantly with the small kit of Nikkor lenses that still linger about here. I find its controls and ergonomics simple, logical, easy to learn and remember. The viewfinder is excellent, the files are robust in editing, and it has the features I care about well in hand. 

 

I don't use flash too much and don't own a dedicated flash unit. I use flash mostly for tabletop/product work and for a little bit of event work. I use a Cactus V5 trigger set to fire up to three flashes with RF wireless and usually use a hand-held meter to evaluate exposure manually. For events, I've set up my flash units on stands, pointed their in-built sensors to read the average people environment, evaluated a proper aperture setting, and gotten excellent results that way too. Usually one or two test exposures and everything works beautifully. 

 

The SL proves a wonderfully ergonomic and rugged camera to work with. It has obviated most of the other equipment I used to use for any "job" oriented photography, and most of my personal work as well. I still have an M for when I want something smaller and lighter in the field, and still have my Hasselblads (film only) for when I want a big negative. Otherwise, the rest of my gear is gathering dust waiting for me to sell it. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

When you pick up a camera and it just feels right, like the SL seems to be for you, then barring a real show stopper, you have already made your decision. I did exactly the same. I went to the launch with my mind made up that it wasn't the camera for me. By the end of the night my pre-order was in. And for me, it's been a great choice. Now with fw 2.0 it's my main working camera.

 

TTL off camera flash isn't a thing in Leica land. The only way to get a TTL flash off camera is with a cable. Because Nikon pins are in the same place their cables work as pass through cables on the Leica cameras. That, of course, does not mean that Leica cameras are TTL compatible with Nikon. Leica TTL hotshoe flashes are just a Metz or Nissin unit at twice the price. And you have to use the Leica branded ones due to the exclusive arrangements Leica have.

 

Manual flashes, on the other hand, are great on the SL. Better than the A7R2. I find with wireless manual flash (Godox and Elinchrom) that I use, with the Sony I get banding starting above /160 (even though Sony state 1/250). With the SL I can get to 1/250 with no banding at all. The SL also has a very short blackout time which helps.

 

Downsides of the switch. You'll lose some resoulution (duh ), the flippy screen and AF lens options. The SL has no electronic first curtain shutter and on the Sony long exposure noise reduction can be turned off (not on the SL). The Sony is about 1/2-2/3 of a stop better in noise control and DR. Everything is expensive in Leica land. the Sony has ECF.

 

Upsides? The EVF. It's easier to manual focus lenses and a lot of the time you won't need focusing aids with fast lenses. One press to magnify MF lenses. A button dedicated to switching between the LCD and EVF. The artificial horizon is more accurate. Longer battery life, Better build quality. M lenses are generally a bit better behaved on the SL than the Sony and coded lenses pass through EXIF to the body and to Lightroom for profiles. The SL is snappier all round. The SL's shutter is fantastic. Quiet and better damped.

 

The Leica does have it's quirks. We got rid of some major annoyances with fw2.0. Hopefully Leica will soon give us 3.0 to get rid of a few more.

 

I kept my A7R2. I need a backup because I use the SL for work (both work with the same adapted lenses I use) and occasionally the high resolution files are useful. But it hasn't been used in over two months. The SL, to me, is a much better camera in use.

 

Gordon

[sillbeers15]

Hi all,

 

My first post here, perhaps if you all do a great job not my last

 

I've been using a Sony A7rII for a year now and my problem is I loath it. I don't think that will prompt much debate. I'm seriously considering selling everything and buying a Leica SL but it's a huge commitment and I need some encouragement and in particular a few questions answered. I've searched on the forum and there are lots of references to these questions but nothing definitive that I can find (though I am sure it's there somewhere).

 

First - what options exist for using off camera flash; do Nikon triggers work on the SL hotshoe and would a Leica flash unit then work with those?

Second - what options exist other than Leica branded units for on-camera flash? The Leica branded ones a ridiculously expensive.

 

I shoot a Hasselblad film camera in addition to the Sony (odd combination I know) and focus on street, portraiture and documentary genres with some abstract and environment also. I tend to use the Hasselblad for portraits and the Sony for everything else but do quite often use the Sony for stuido portaits. If I replace the Sony, whatever I get needs to be able to shoot with flash at some point hence the question.

 

Other than that my other option would be a second hand M240 and perhaps keep the A7rII for studio work but I worry about being able to focus a rangefinder. I tried an SL the other day and loved it so much I almsot bought it there and then, but i need to sell the Sony kit first and figure out the flash options for the Leica. 

 

Thanks all and i look forward to your replies.

 

Don't spend your own money to buy an SL! cause,

-You do not need one, you just want one;

-It is never value for money if you need to rationalize your decision;

-Other makes offer more choices of lenses at much lower cost;

-It is perceived as a branded camera, many others like to hate you for that;

-It make you emotional each time you shoot and review the results, just convince yourself a much cheaper camera will do the job.

[IkarusJohn]

Don't spend your own money to buy an SL! cause,

-You do not need one, you just want one;

-It is never value for money if you need to rationalize your decision;

-Other makes offer more choices of lenses at much lower cost;

-It is perceived as a branded camera, many others like to hate you for that;

-It make you emotional each time you shoot and review the results, just convince yourself a much cheaper camera will do the job.

Go through that rationalisation, sleep on it, then just buy it!

 

You know you want to ...

[A miller]

I'd wait until the next digital M is announced and then take stock of the pros and cons.  It won't be much longer...

[JeffWright]

the Zeiss and Summarit will be fine. 

 

the 24-90 offers enormous advantages to go with its enormous (relative to manual lenses) size. 

 

a lot of people say never ..... then end up with one and manage to convince themselves it's really not that big as a trade off for zoom, superb imagery, OIS and AF .....

 

 

Count me in that category of said never, until I found one at a great used price. Just took on my first prolonged trip with a bunch of M lenses and 24-90 in same ranges. Only used the M lenses on the Monochrom other than the 21 SEM. 24-90 used for 80%, 90-280 10%, 21 SEM 2%, 17 Canon TSE 3%, Zeiss ZE 100/2 5%.

[adamdewilde]

The Leica SL has better ergonomics IMHO, faster shoot rate, an on paper good lens, and better M adaptability, plus a better EVF.. But thats where the advantages end. Everything else goes to Sony. 

 

Truthfully I'd still buy the SL over the Sony even though the Sony TTL is WAY better. But if I had to choose between the SL or an M240, I'd take the M240. I'm more competent focusing a RF than an EVF and I much prefer the M240 sensor.

 

 

I can see a CLEAR solution for you right now. And I'm not sure if others will agree or if you'll like it but here it is:

 

You shoot Hassy for portraits and walk around shots. You shoot Sony for street and fast AF things plus Studio portraits. The SL is annoying at best in a studio TBH. The solution I have is as follows.

 

Buy an S-006 (they're cheap now). Best sensor I've ever used. Will be perfect with it's brilliant OVF for manual focusing street shots. The AF will work for quirky still life and the AF will also work well for studio shots. The sensor will give you amazing results. The lenses are stellar. The only issue is, something about the system will need servicing every 6 months. The more lenses you get, the more you use the camera, the shorter the service duration could be. You'll be no better or worse with the TTL on the S as with any other Leica camera. In fact, I find the TTL on the S seems to be more accurate then the SL or M. Maybe the way it reads exposures.. Who knows??

If you're not a pro, the S-system is your best bet. If you make money off your gear, it's difficult to love the S with the frequency of repairs. 

 

Then for a small light quick camera. Pick up a X-T2 + 35/2 or 23/2 amazing results, great fast camera. No issues, super light weight. Or if you wanted to stick with the Leica theme get a Q or wait for a new X series. Or heck pick up a cheap cheap Leica T + 23 or 35 lens. 

[wjdrijfhout]

At photokina I asked the Leica product manager about a Profoto solution and he suggested that something was in the making. It would make sense, as Profoto has just released their Sony Air remote TTL, after many years only supporting Nikon and Canon. Again, this specifically refers to TTL. Non-TTL flash seems to work perfectly well with Profoto's generic air remote and the SL. As far as I know, currently the only TTL solution for the SL is Leica's own strobes. Checked out Metz at photokina, but nothing there.

 

The SL is a fantastic camera. Having been a long-time Canon shooter, I am selling off most of my Canon gear and building out the SL system. The 24-90 is large, but nothing out-of ordinary compared to competing 24-70's (including Sony), but very versatile with excellent optical quality, solid construction and near-silent operation. The M-lenses with focus peaking/magnification are a delight to use. I use my 90mm summicron much more on the SL than on the M240. Just ordered the 90-280, which will be the final kill for some remaining Canon-lenses... 

[250swb]

Well this thread worked on me, I went out yesterday and bought an SL and an M adapter.

 

I'd been through all the options and realised the answer was right under my nose, the only camera that could do what I wanted was the SL. The first part of my plan is to use my M lenses, and also get a cheap Nikon adapter, then ultimately take the advice and add the 24-90mm. So thank you for those that had positive things to say about the SL in both this and other threads, you just cost me a lot of money...................

 

 

Steve

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[LocalHero1953]

Well this thread worked on me, I went out yesterday and bought an SL and an M adapter.

 

I'd been through all the options and realised the answer was right under my nose, the only camera that could do what I wanted was the SL. The first part of my plan is to use my M lenses, and also get a cheap Nikon adapter, then ultimately take the advice and add the 24-90mm. So thank you for those that had positive things to say about the SL in both this and other threads, you just cost me a lot of money...................

 

 

Steve

Curious: will this replace another camera/system you have (M, Sony....), or an addition, with the intention of doing different things with it?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Well this thread worked on me, I went out yesterday and bought an SL and an M adapter.

 

I'd been through all the options and realised the answer was right under my nose, the only camera that could do what I wanted was the SL. The first part of my plan is to use my M lenses, and also get a cheap Nikon adapter, then ultimately take the advice and add the 24-90mm. So thank you for those that had positive things to say about the SL in both this and other threads, you just cost me a lot of money...................

 

 

Steve

 

Glad we could help. Do you have any more money? We'd be happy to help you buy the 90-280.

 

Gordon

 

p.s. Don't buy a cheap adaptor. Just get the Novoflex now rather than buying it after getting frustrated with cheap stuff first. I use one with my ZF 100mm Makro Planar. An absolutely sensational combination on the SL.