bilbrown Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share #61 Posted October 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm sure it would have looked different through a S007........... I certainly SEE a difference in the DOF with my S007 over my old S006. Unfortunately I don't have the same files to show a comparison like you did with your SL and S006.............Maybe David can help out there? The 007 would likely have a closer color rendition to the SL, IMO. Though, I have zero idea since I don't have either. What this DOES tell me is the S006 is pretty sick, still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Hi bilbrown, Take a look here Very torn, should I get a S type 006, S type 007 or just use my SL???. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bilbrown Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share #62 Posted October 9, 2016 Aint no different to buying a car..............most new things go down in price after you buy them...... By 25% of the price?? Not a Leica. Not lately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted October 9, 2016 Share #63 Posted October 9, 2016 By 25% of the price?? Not a Leica. Not lately.i think if they only drop 25% your onto a winner. I don't think I have ever trout about how much it's going to be before buying something. If I want it I will by it and worry about what's it's worth when I go to sell it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbrown Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share #64 Posted October 9, 2016 i think if they only drop 25% your onto a winner. I don't think I have ever trout about how much it's going to be before buying something. If I want it I will by it and worry about what's it's worth when I go to sell it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No I meant, 25% of the value left... a drop of like 75%. And I left DSLRs and the Sony/Fuji world behind because I didn't want to see my investments depreciate that much over time. I mean, like I said, if my 10 year old M8 fluctuates between 1800-2500 USD constantly and my DSLR from 10 years ago is worth $125... You can really only tell the relative worth of a product once it's life cycle is over. There is good Nikon glass, Canon glass, Zeiss... good camera bodies... but you buy into Leica as a professional for a few different reasons. One of which is obviously why all of us are here, they are great cameras and the optics are legendary and people can't quite get the same shots. The other is there is a tad bit of a lead-in on them price wise and it makes it a good investment in the long run with really simple (conservative) use of new tech, so you don't have to upgrade all the time, plus when you do, you can get at least part of the value you bought into to upgrade the body. If I buy a $17K body, I want to know when the upgrade happens I can sell it for a good price to make the upgrade easier. $22k to $4k on the used market doesn't give a lot of hope the S007 will be worth anywhere NEAR the money I spend on it when it's time to move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted October 9, 2016 Share #65 Posted October 9, 2016 No I meant, 25% of the value left... a drop of like 75%.again it doesn't matter. If you want it buy it....... if your worried about loosing money pit it under your mattress :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbrown Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share #66 Posted October 9, 2016 again it doesn't matter. If you want it buy it....... if your worried about loosing money pit it under your mattress :) We have different perspectives. All good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted October 9, 2016 Share #67 Posted October 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) We have different perspectives. All good. +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbrown Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share #68 Posted October 9, 2016 +1 One question though, what do you use your S for? Who are fashion and portrait photographers around here? Seems like a lot of landscape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted October 9, 2016 Share #69 Posted October 9, 2016 One question though, what do you use your S for? Who are fashion and portrait photographers around here? Seems like a lot of landscape. A bit of everything really Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/265163-very-torn-should-i-get-a-s-type-006-s-type-007-or-just-use-my-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3125824'>More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted October 9, 2016 Share #70 Posted October 9, 2016 And a Landscape picture Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/265163-very-torn-should-i-get-a-s-type-006-s-type-007-or-just-use-my-sl/?do=findComment&comment=3125828'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 9, 2016 Share #71 Posted October 9, 2016 Okay, I pulled out my manual. It says, "Dynamic range 13 aperture stops." I also downloaded the user manual from the Leica site and it says 15 stops. So, which is it? I know that David spoke to the Leica guys directly and they told him 15 stops. I'd just like some clarification. Academic exercise.....but wouldn't help me make any purchase decision. I make my own tests (rent, demo, borrow), taking pics and making prints using my own workflow, to determine if specific gear suits my needs/preferences or not. YMMV. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted October 9, 2016 Share #72 Posted October 9, 2016 Academic exercise.....but wouldn't help me make any purchase decision. I make my own tests (rent, demo, borrow), taking pics and making prints using my own workflow, to determine if specific gear suits my needs/preferences or not. YMMV. Jeff Jeff, that kind of empirical approach drives marketing gurus insane. Respect. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmay Posted October 9, 2016 Share #73 Posted October 9, 2016 Just to reiterate, diffraction would affect CCD or CMOS sensors the same, given the same pixel pitch. Having said that, I did find that I could shoot at f/13 on the S006 while f/11 on the S007 looked sharper. I think this is because of slightly better per-pixel acuity on the S007. With the S 006 I reviewed a shot of a church with a clock, at f8, f11 and f16. Camera was on a tripod and I inspected the clock face, which was in the distance. I could see no difference between f8 and f11 at 100%. I could barely see a difference at f16, but that may be because I knew it was f16. In a blind test, I may not be able to choose the f16 shot. I did not need f16 for depth of field. I wish now that I had made a shot at f22 as well. In any case, with the S, I would not worry about f16, if you need f16 for depth of field or to slow the shutter speed. Depending on the lens, f16 may be a necessity because of narrower depth of field of the S format. As to the topic of getting an S versus using SL only, I prefer bigger sensors. I am not a speed photographer. If you like to move fast, the S may not be for you. I still have my digital M if I want to go lightweight, but it serves more as a backup to the S. Jesse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted October 9, 2016 Share #74 Posted October 9, 2016 I'm sure it would have looked different through a S007........... I certainly SEE a difference in the DOF with my S007 over my old S006. Unfortunately I don't have the same files to show a comparison like you did with your SL and S006.............Maybe David can help out there? Difference in DOF. How is that possible unless shooting at different aperture? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbrown Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share #75 Posted October 10, 2016 A bit of everything really Oh okay, cool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted October 10, 2016 Share #76 Posted October 10, 2016 Difference in DOF. How is that possible unless shooting at different aperture? I can think of two reasons. Suppose you focus on a leaf. The leaf could be sharp in two photos which were not focused at exactly the same distance. Then objects behind the leaf might look different, giving the impression of different DoF. You'd really have to check both in front and behind and do the calculation. Second, the default sharpening in the RAW converter could be different for the different cameras. There is no such thing as "no sharpening" in the popular RAW converters. But I'm just guessing. Otherwise, same lens, same focus, same aperture, same pixel pitch -> same DoF. Oh, I suppose there could be some on-chip massaging that changes default sharpness. --Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted October 10, 2016 Share #77 Posted October 10, 2016 Difference in DOF. How is that possible unless shooting at different aperture? My bad.......I was meant to have said DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted October 10, 2016 Share #78 Posted October 10, 2016 I'll throw another log on the fire then. I have shot about 26000 frames so far with the S system nearly all in studio and handheld. I also have the SL now which has some unique advantages. Each has different strengths. However 2000 or so frames now with the SL and the 24-90 and its just not that much lighter in my impressions at least handheld and both tire me after a few hundred exposures. Actually I think that the SL would balance better in the hand with its battery grip (I have for my S). Both that SL grip and the S-T adapter are still not landed my country however.No comment from me on value for money, resale value and original pricing! though. I think that those are individual considerations and priorities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 12, 2016 Share #79 Posted October 12, 2016 Personally with the X1D and the GFX 50S being released next year (at a price below $10K) there is no way on earth that I would spend $17K on a 37MP Leica S007... Oops! Just did. After a brief stint with a deal on an S2 I knew I wanted the 007. I also have the Pentax 645Z with a full set of lenses so i already know what to expect from that sensor. Not for everyone and not a perfect camera but for me..... - The SL is my main body for work. I use an A7R2 as a backup for commercial work (i.e.: I don't use it much) but I wanted a second camera for my commercial portraiture and weddings. I didn't want/need a second SL body. - The interface is very close to the SL. It shares a TTL flash system for weddings. I can use S lenses on the SL (I have the adaptor already). It's not much larger/heavier than the SL. Battery life is better than the Fuji/Hasselblad options. - The lenses are astounding. They're stunning wide open and stunning stopped down. Just brilliant. I don't have CS lenses but it's nice to know I can go there if I need to. - The sensor has less resolution than the 645Z, certainly. It's 900 pixels less horizontally. But it's a match in ratio with the SL so I can mix and match cameras on a single shoot without having to crop. The 007 sensor is great. Loads of dynamic range. Leica say 15 stops in some literature and 13 in others. It's probably somewhere in between. The 645Z sensor might be a bit better but it's not by much. The Leica sensor is 16bit. The miniMF sensor in the Pentax is read at 14 bits as will the Fuji be. It's s noticeable step up from the SL or even the A7R2 in colour transitions and dynamic range. -Operationally the 007 is much faster than the 645Z. Image reply is instant. Things load faster. It's a snappy camera. Af is better than the 645Z with FA lenses and about the same as DA lenses. Reports of sluggish X1D's don't make me want one as much. - I already own some S lenses. Got one with the S2 (35mm) and bought the zoom at 1/2 price (near mint) and the 70 and 120mm. So I had lenses. That means the cost of the 007 is about the same as the investment I needed for the Fuji/Hasselblad. - I'd prefer mirrorless personally. I'll live with live view. The screen should be flippy but isn't. LENR and the short exposure times mean I won't be selling my Pentax just yet. But I may trade it for the Hasselblad to have a portable/travel MF system *IF* the lens road map convinces me I won't have huge holes in the lens range. If I could do 30 min exposures and turn off LENR then I would be all Leica. I'm hopeful the next S will be a mirrorless body with all the advantages that offers. - All the lenses i want are available now. No waiting. No road map. Sure I'd like a fast 65mm (f1.4?), a super wide zoom and a telezoom but I am happy with what I have. I want the 24mm, .......... bad - I'm not one to be terribly concerned with resale values. If I don't like a camera I turn it over quickly. If I like it I use it hard. It'll more than pay its way. Compared to lenses that keep up with the Leicas, Leica is mid priced. - I'm looking to take my business somewhere new. I shot 6x6 for years and then went all small format when digital came out. I want to push the envelope a bit. I bought the Pentax as a personal camera for landscapes but it crept into a job here and there and I loved the results. But except for a couple of lenses I needed to shoot stopped down. great for landscapes. Not so much for portraiture. The Leica allows me to shoot wide or down at will. - 007 colours are consistent with my SL. I have my SL colours and workflow really dialled in now and I love the files I'm making. The 007 is that. just more. - I seriously considered waiting for the X1D or Fuji GFX. But the Hasselblad lenses are an unknown quantity and they haven't announced the ones I'd want, yet. I saw a video on the Fuji at PK. The 120mm looks as big as the S 120. Expected. You need to make the lenses as big as you need to make them. But it says although the body is 500grams lighter the *system* might not be the huge size/weight saver we hope it is. The Hasselblad lenses will be smaller but slower. I appreciate the faster lenses for my uses. I was really hoping for a mirrorless S at Photokina, but since I didn't get one I'll make do with what is a really really good camera. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted October 12, 2016 Share #80 Posted October 12, 2016 Oops! Just did. Congratulations! Don't get me wrong, I would like to own one but me personally $17K is more than I want to pay for a camera with those specs. That being said, if Leica tomorrow were to release an adapter for my 12 Rollei lenses I could probably easily be persuaded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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