Low light performance - 006 vs. 007

[LeicaR10]

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Dritz...You will get much better images with the S007 than your S-E in thin light.  I felt the same way with my S006 until I went to the Leica Store in San Francisco and used their demo S007 for a few days.  The site:  MadeinWetzlar  has an excellent write up with photos with the S007 in low light as well.  I am very pleased with my low light images from the S007 and S lenses.  I wouldn't fret about it.  Once you get out and start shooting and enjoying the moment creating your images, you won't look back.  r/ Mark

[albertknappmd]

The results are by definition SUBJECTIVE but the 007 will give you EXCELLENT results at 1600 ISO. Going to 3200, you will see a little noise but if you don't plan on massive enlargement etc, it is not a bother.. 6400 is a little trickier and less predictable.

Albert       

[albertknappmd]

low light with 007...

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[alan.y]

I think 007 is at least 2 stops better than S2, and feels more in practice. The more reliable AF (compared to the S2, haven't used the 006) and slightly better damped mirror makes it a much better tool for walk around shooting in low light. I've taken shots that would have been impossible on the S2. I think being able to go from 1/10 to 1/50 or so is make or break.

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[dritz]

I think 007 is at least 2 stops better than S2, and feels more in practice. The more reliable AF (compared to the S2, haven't used the 006) and slightly better damped mirror makes it a much better tool for walk around shooting in low light. I've taken shots that would have been impossible on the S2. I think being able to go from 1/10 to 1/50 or so is make or break.

 

Great images!  Last night I had a slideshow with a mixture of color and B&W (via dr5.com). Your images suggest I'll finally have that same pleasure in digital.

[dritz]

First day with 007. This shot at 1600, 180-S at f4.8 at 350th of a second.

 

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At 100%

 

 

I can live with this!

[Georges]

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For me, one or two stops difference is not worth double the price.

 

I prefer to buy another lens or two.

[dritz]

For me, one or two stops difference is not worth double the price.

 

I prefer to buy another lens or two.

Isn't that the price difference from a 50 summilux to a Noctilux?

 

And that's just 1 stop... ok, and some aesthetics.

 

Still, lenses are so lovely.

[Deliberate1]

First day with 007. This shot at 1600, 180-S at f4.8 at 350th of a second.

 

 

 

At 100%

 

 

 

I can live with this!

Impressive. That was handheld, I assume? If so, you have steady hands.That is worth at least two stops.

I was thinking that having a couple drafts to calm the hands before shooting may be the most cost effective camera stabilization option available.

If not the most pleasurable, even if it doesn't work.

David 

[dritz]

Impressive. That was handheld, I assume? If so, you have steady hands.That is worth at least two stops.

I was thinking that having a couple drafts to calm the hands before shooting may be the most cost effective camera stabilization option available.

If not the most pleasurable, even if it doesn't work.

David 

 

I use a monopod when I can, or I shove the body's left side to my left shoulder and show somewhat sideways. A good shove against the shoulder makes a cost-effective monopod.  The 180 is the most difficult lense to work with because of its shallow dof.

[Jeff S]

 

I was thinking that having a couple drafts to calm the hands before shooting may be the most cost effective camera stabilization option available.

 

 

Maybe not as fun, but for better stabilization, try Lars' technique from years ago...  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/111304-tripod-monopod-nothing/?p=1209129

 

As he wrote, close to using a monopod.

 

Jeff

[mwilliamsphotography]

I have a different perspective than most when it comes to ISO performance. The reasoning is based on experience and expectations that are quite personal.

 

I started with a S2P and all of my processing protocols were carried over from other CCD systems and tweaked for that camera. When the S(006) launched I saw no immediate need to move there. When the S(007) launched I waited and watched as people whom I respect started working with it and producing images for evaluation. When it came time to move from the S2P (early enough to realize some resale value), I opted for the S(006).  Partly it was to get the 3 year warranty and the incremental improvements for not a lot of difference in price between the S2P I sold, and a new (006) camera pricing after the (007) was out.

 

Mostly I wanted to perpetuate the CCD experience and aesthetic continuity which I had built over a number of MF Cameras/DBs from Imacon, Hasselblad and Leaf ... and then Leica. For the S, the (006) was obviously the last chance to maintain that. 

 

Higher ISO has never been a criteria with my use of MFD including the S. I understand those that want it, and how it can extend the usefulness of their S system for their personal applications.

 

However, I was not willing to give up the CCD that served me for a vast majority of work, for a minority of lower light shots I might accomplish with the (007) ... be it 1 or 2 stops, or some incremental amount of DR. 

 

Low or thin light is further parsed by not only quantity, but quality of light ... the latter having a major effect on the IQ, especially skin tones and natural objects ... a sharp image with questionable skin tones, or odd color contamination from artificial light, is not what I want, nor pay a premium for, from MFD.

 

While I feel that no other camera can compete with my S and lenses for its specific look and feel even up to ISO 800, true low light performance is owned by other camera systems ... in my case a Sony A7R-II which I've shot at ISO 5000 to 8000 with reasonably decent IQ using a full system that cost less than one lens for the S.

 

I also use lighting, for which the S system was originally designed and positioned as a pro camera leaning toward fashion work, part of a unique functional ability that many S owners do not use much. All of my S lenses except the S-100/2 are the CS versions, and I use them that way a lot. Frankly, had the S been a focal plane camera only, I would have stuck with Hasselblad H.

 

I guess this falls under the "Horses For Courses" philosophy. 

 

 

BTW, for hand held stability I use a dual lug ARCA adapter with a hand strap from Camadapter on one side, and a springy shoulder strap on the other side (so it hangs like a M5). A monopod with a RRS HD Monopod head is employed when needed.

 

Here's a S2P hand-held available light shot @ ISO 320 which I had to lift about a stop in processing. The S sensor/lens combo helped maintain vivid color in the background while producing natural skin tones and subtile tones in the dress.  ISO 640 is about as far as I was willing to go with the S2P and 800 with the S (006).     

 

- Marc

 

 

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[tom0511]

For me the move to the S007 meant that I now can use the S system in situations where I could not use it before.

I am just a hobbyist and use the S a lot for taking images of my kids. I dont like "artificial" light for such things. 

I now can take images with the S inside and in "available light" situations. I also now have less situations where I need to make compromise between exposure time and ISO setting. For me it was worth it.

Color...I had times when I thought CCD is better, and times when I thought CMOS is better, I sold M9 and bought another one and sold it again just to buy another one which I never use.

I havent shot many comparisons between S006 and S007 before selling the S006, but I can say so far I really have not missed anything with the S007.

 

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Out of curiosity, what do S owners use for walk-about cameras with low light capacity?

David

 

Nikon D5

[albireo_double]

Out of curiosity, what do S owners use for walk-about cameras with low light capacity?

David

 

M246 or D4

[kuau]

As much as I wanted the S007 I picked up a used S 006 with Leica warranty for 1/3 the cost and used all the money I saved on S glass. I started with the 70, then purchased the 30, 120, and 180.. all used of course yet they all cost almost 50% off new. Love me 006 and I am sure will upgrade to the 007 once used ones start showing up. In the mean time I am keeping my eyes peeled for the 45..