A good reason why you shouldn't buy a M8 ... and should dump the DMR

[sdai]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Ok, I won't comment on this Apple/Leica things ... but to quote Erwin Puts in his latest effort:

 

In a recent issue of the German Fotomagazin, there is an article about the 'secret plans' of Leica product development. Not exactly that, but a guestimate by a journalist with good connections within the company. He looks through his crystal ball into the content of interviews with Leica managers. What does he predict?: an M9 and an R10, daring and creative. The M9 is the current M8 with 16 Mb sensor as you will also find in the R10. The M9 (probability rating 90%!) has 16 Mb on the same sensor size as the current M8, will have a Live View function, electronic rangefinder support or an electronic finder as an accessory device. The M8 will stay in production but now as an a-la-carte model (probability rating 95%). A digital CM is also predicted but with a PR of only 30%. With a PR of 90% we will see a new R10 in the current body shape of the R9, but with 16 Mb sensor and AF lenses. In the past we had the R and RE series of bodies, so there will also be an R10E (PR of 50%).

 

Perhaps I should add the pixel count is actually 16.7MP

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Shootist]

Why would this stop or deter anyone from buying a M8. It works! It's available and you can use all M lenses on it.

If the M9 works with current lenses then I'll buy one when it comes out. Until then I'll use the M8.

If the M9 needs new lenses then that will be another decision.

I'm still using a M3 that was made about 8-11 years after I was born. And guess what I'm using my new 6bit coded lenses with it. Should the idea of someday a digital M camera coming out stopped me from buying a M3.

[sdai]

Why would this stop or deter anyone from buying a M8. It works! It's available and you can use all M lenses on it.

 

Well, your argument is both right and wrong, Ed.

 

The M8 surely works for some people but I doubt many potential buyers have any compelling need to buy it NOW ... and NOT all M lenses can be used on it.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

You have to look at this like anything else in digital it has a 18 month shelf life than a new model comes out, maybe longer in leica's case but the M8 is there first attempt at the RF side and it does produce wondefull images , will the M9 be better. It should push the bar up just like any other company does. I don't know if any of this is valid or not but hell once again i will be first in line for one, actually either one or both. I would love to test it that is for sure. But 16mpx with no AA filter than the race maybe over for me. That is something to sink your teeth in.

[sean_reid]

I had a compelling desire to buy the M8 ASAP and I put it to work right away. Future cameras are fun to think about but my favorite cameras are always the ones I can actually use right now, especially since hypothetical cameras don't put food on the table this week.

 

YMMV

[Guest guy_mancuso]

But let me add something here that is very disturbing and that is Erwin spreading rumors. he is supposed to be a reviewer and not a gossip monger. Clearly in my opinion a very bad move on his part and my respect for him just dropped several more notches. Sorry as a reviewer of any gear , you should NEVER write or quote any rumors or gossip of what anyone heard or assumes. That is poor judgement and only deal with the gear that you hold in your hand to test as a review.

[Guest malland]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

But let me add something here that is very disturbing and that is Erwin spreading rumors. he is supposed to be a reviewer and not a gossip monger. Clearly in my opinion a very bad move on his part and my respect for him just dropped several more notches. Sorry as a reviewer of any gear , you should NEVER write or quote any rumors or gossip of what anyone heard or assumes. That is poor judgement and only deal with the gear that you hold in your hand to test as a review.

Come on, Guy, it's actually an interesting article, and he's not writing it as a reviewer. He's making an interesting point in that a company cannot always follow what its customer base says it wants now. Volkswagen almost bankrupted itself when it produced the 411 which was a larger car, say, what used to be called compact size, with four doors, and an air-cooled rear engine: they thought that they were in the business of making making cars with rear air-cooled engines, rather than what they were at the time, which was a company produce very reliable, inexpensive cars at the time when most cars were not that reliable. The 411 became Volkswagen's M5.

 

When I got the Ricoh GR-D last year I thought, this is the type of camera that Leica would have produced if they were still an innovative company, which they have not been for ages.The import of Puts' article is that Leica is not likely to survive if they cannot be more innovative than have been with the M8, and the comparison with Apple's approach is interesting, alhough Apple a huge company while Leica is a small (not even medium) enterprise. If you wish Leica well you've got to hope that they produce a more innovative camera than the M8. And there is nothing wrong in the Germand magazine, or Puts, speculating on what the company may do. Reviewing is another thing.

 

I think the problem is in the title of this thread, which is silly, not in Puts' article

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Why even talk about it, really has no value and is just quoting a rumur , sorry he is just as bad as the journalist for springing a rumor on the scene. I think it is in bad taste the article is pretty good but i really don't like rumors coming from reviewers sites , to me that is wrong. Maybe it's me and just like anything else with Erwin there are devotees that follow ever word and he has been proven wrong over and over again. I just hate bad or misleading information. Maybe i am too sensitive to this stuff because i have been doing this so long I just see so many holes in it.

[sdai]

I think the problem is in the title of this thread, which is silly, not in Puts' article

 

Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion while I could care less what Erwin thinks about Apple and ... Leica - but I have little doubt that they'll fall even faster if they try to be another Apple ... IMHO.

 

I guess some people mustn't be feeling very well because they are placed under Leica's NDA, and now Put is off the hook when spreading rumors by quoting a German magazine. LOL

 

Buy as many M8/DMR as you want/can, that's exactly how Leica could get more money to work on a better camera for the rests.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Simon i could care less about a NDA or not and it's effects . Bottom line a journalist should not spread rumors or start them and worse a reviewer should not promote them. Frankly i have heard nothing remotely close to this so it is really a meaningless rumor and leica is talking to no one and will not either. So it makes it even more bogus

[pascal_meheut]

So Leica will launch new products and Sdai's conclusion is that we should then avoid to use or buy the current ones...

 

I find it hard to see the logic here because it applies to any digital product of any manufacturer. As soon as one product cames out, we know that a better one will come too.

 

But because sdai tone implies that he is smarter than anybody and that if someones disagree with him, it is for some hidden reason like a NDA, maybe he'll explain.

[egibaud]

Hi,

 

You should add:

 

- do not buy an MKIII, Canon is working on a MKIV

- do not buy a MacBook, Apple is working on a SuperMacBook

- do not buy a Mercedes 500SL, they are working on a new version

- do not buy an LCD TV, Sony is working on a Super LCDTV

 

just laughable news.

 

EVERY BODY in ANY INDUSTRY is always working on a new and better version of a product.

 

So when should you buy????

 

Eric

[Shootist]

So Leica will launch new products and Sdai's conclusion is that we should then avoid to use or buy the current ones...

 

I find it hard to see the logic here because it applies to any digital product of any manufacturer. As soon as one product cames out, we know that a better one will come too.

 

But because sdai tone implies that he is smarter than anybody and that if someones disagree with him, it is for some hidden reason like a NDA, maybe he'll explain.

 

It's just not about digital product. It has been like this since time began. There are always new products coming out, including cameras from the first one ever made.

Nothing new here.

 

I think the correct title for Mr. sdai is "Troll". And guess what, we all bit.

Let this thread die.

[luigi bertolotti]

If technology makes it viable a sensor of the M8's size, with 16MP instead of 10, nothing strange that Leica thinks to engineer a M9; for myself, 10MP are more than sufficient and I hope to use my M8 for years and years (hoping for a decent sensor live: this can be the REAL problem for oldtime Leica users...). Depending on the 16MP sensor assembly, could even happen they setup an upgrade for M8... I think in tech terms it could be viable... a nice return to the times in which a IIIc could be upgraded to IIIf... or IIf to IIIf...

 

The envisioned "electronic VF/RF" would on the contrary change a lot the usual Leica feeling, but... maybe it is the reason for they did not take much care to M8 frames precision.

 

Anyway, my opinion is that is better not to became addicted in the "... something new is to arrive..." syndrome that is typical of high tech: I have had my M8 for 3 weeks only but my sincere opinion is that if one wants a very good digital camera NOW, M8 is an excellent choice, period (expecially if you don't have to buy too many new lenses...)

[Guest stnami]

Ed it would be nice if it died but seeing that you have referred to sdai as a "troll":) it ain't gonna happen hei probably, pacing up and down in a cave under that mountain avatar gathering an army ready to pounce

[MP3]

Will there be a technology to improve image quality in terms of DR, tone & color, resolution without tually double up all the storages...

 

16.7MP just means bigger SD, media player, HDD, NAS, etc before we know whether the IQ improvement justisfy =(

[Shootist]

If technology makes it viable a sensor of the M8's size, with 16MP instead of 10, nothing strange that Leica thinks to engineer a M9; for myself, 10MP are more than sufficient and I hope to use my M8 for years and years (hoping for a decent sensor live: this can be the REAL problem for oldtime Leica users...). Depending on the 16MP sensor assembly, could even happen they setup an upgrade for M8... I think in tech terms it could be viable... a nice return to the times in which a IIIc could be upgraded to IIIf... or IIf to IIIf...

 

The envisioned "electronic VF/RF" would on the contrary change a lot the usual Leica feeling, but... maybe it is the reason for they did not take much care to M8 frames precision.

 

Anyway, my opinion is that is better not to became addicted in the "... something new is to arrive..." syndrome that is typical of high tech: I have had my M8 for 3 weeks only but my sincere opinion is that if one wants a very good digital camera NOW, M8 is an excellent choice, period expecially if you don't have to buy too many new lenses...

 

If my understanding of sensor size to MP count is right then as the MP count gets higher on the smae size sensor the COC gets smaller and that the lens resolution can't keep up with the MP count. Making it hard to shoot hand held at lower shutter speed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[bernd_muc]

Ok, I won't comment on this Apple/Leica things ...

Well, Puts' article is about "the Apple/Leica things" and not about Fotomagazin's M9/R10 speculations - he just quotes them to add his view and he actually is not very enthusiastic about these more or less obvious things (design and pixel count). Last but not least, I cannot see where you get the justification for your suggestive thread topic - has it ever been questioned that there will be a M9 and a R10? It's just a matter of time...

 

Bernd

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[marknorton]

At least Erwin credited the Economist as the source of his latest ramblings. The Economist article is worth reading and positions Apple, no longer Apple Computer, as one of the most innovative companies with new ways of bringing product to market.

 

Whether that same approach can be transferred to Leica is tough to know. Producing mass market electronics in a Chinese sweat shop is a world apart from precision optics and Apple has had its own fair share of dismal products. Apple Newton anyone?

 

That Leica were able to bring the product to market is a marvel. By my estimation, the M8 cost less to develop than Canon spent on their Pavilion at Fotokina 2006, which I know was $30m. The M8 is necessarily a stepping stone for Leica and the M9 and R10 will capitalise on the accumulated experience with I daresay some new thinking from the new investors and management.

[jaapv]

If I had known Leica were going to produce an M7, would I have bought the M3 way back?? A silly way of thinking, not only applied to electronics...