Jeff S Posted February 25, 2017 Share #1321 Posted February 25, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) One thing to consider with the GFX is that a smallish 32-64 zoom is among the first 3 offerings.... saves carrying multiple lenses if performance suffices. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2017 Posted February 25, 2017 Hi Jeff S, Take a look here Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
steppenw0lf Posted February 25, 2017 Share #1322 Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) I think now everybody can see what was already said at the beginning of the thread: Even though both are mirrorless the two cameras are completely different. No comparison possible. If you are used to the SL, then the X1D is noisy and terribly slow and the lenses awfully clumsy (and the bigger lenses are still to come.) If handling is important, that's it. If handling is completely ignored and raw file quality is paramount, then the X1D is a good choice. So it is not possible to say one is better. It simply depends. (How many pages to find this obvious thing out ?) Edited February 25, 2017 by steppenw0lf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted February 25, 2017 Share #1323 Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) "If you are used to the SL, then the X1D is noisy and terribly slow and the lenses awfully clumsy (and the bigger lenses are still to come.)" I think the SL and its comically large lenses are even clumsier... Edited February 25, 2017 by R3D-D0T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted February 25, 2017 Share #1324 Posted February 25, 2017 I think now everybody can see what was already said at the beginning of the thread: Even though both are mirrorless the two cameras are completely different. No comparison possible. If you are used to the SL, then the X1D is noisy and terribly slow and the lenses awfully clumsy (and the bigger lenses are still to come.) If handling is important, that's it. If handling is completely ignored and raw file quality is paramount, then the X1D is a good choice. So it is not possible to say one is better. It simply depends. (How many pages to find this obvious thing out ?) Agree except about the lenses. They aren't any more clumsy than the SL or TL lenses. And the 45 is fairly lightweight, surprisingly. Feels very balanced on the X1d. Nothing clumsy about it. Slow, yes! A little noisy, kind of yes. Not as bad as SLR. If you need any speed, get an SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 25, 2017 Share #1325 Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) To the SL belong several hundred lenses, among them all the M and R lenses. The M lenses are definitlely less clumsy than the X1D lenses. Do I really have to explain ? Why is this so difficult to grab ? This is about using a system. And I use the SL more often with manual lenses than with native lenses. Should I apologize for this ? Should it be forbidden ? The X1D has only 3 big lenses, and the following lenses will be even bigger. So clear, it is not even worth a bet. And the H5/6 system lenses to be adapted later are even bigger. Nowhere any small lens in sight. Even the smallest lens (45) is bigger than in e.g. the Fuji. The optics are small but the shutter makes it a big lens just the same. And if you add the lens shades - horror. Why is it so difficult to agree that the cameras cannot be compared in a meaningful way ? Edited February 25, 2017 by steppenw0lf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 25, 2017 Share #1326 Posted February 25, 2017 I'd be interested in your inside information regarding the X1D lens roadmap. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1327 Posted February 26, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) To the SL belong several hundred lenses, among them all the M and R lenses. The M lenses are definitlely less clumsy than the X1D lenses. Do I really have to explain ? Why is this so difficult to grab ? This is about using a system. And I use the SL more often with manual lenses than with native lenses. Should I apologize for this ? Should it be forbidden ? The X1D has only 3 big lenses, and the following lenses will be even bigger. So clear, it is not even worth a bet. And the H5/6 system lenses to be adapted later are even bigger. Nowhere any small lens in sight. Even the smallest lens (45) is bigger than in e.g. the Fuji. The optics are small but the shutter makes it a big lens just the same. And if you add the lens shades - horror. Why is it so difficult to agree that the cameras cannot be compared in a meaningful way ? No need to come unglued. Not a big deal, really. We all are entitled to our opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1328 Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Times like these I keep looking for the No Thanks button .... Bob Edited February 26, 2017 by docmoore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1329 Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Not a big deal that it is not possible to call a clumsy lens a clumsy lens. A rose is a rose ... Stick to the topic, any small lenses in sight for the X1D ? No thanks for the last remark of docmoore. Nobody needs this. The thread is already full of remarks of this level. And I say it again. Please enjoy the camera. But do not behave like a freshly fallen in love - who beats up anybody who finds the smallest fault in his lover. What do you loose if you agree that the cameras are too different to make a useful comparison ? What unfriendly remarks will follow now again ? (It's not a big deal, just the same this thread is full of unfriendly remarks, like very few others. Surprising to see grownups behave like that. What has become "unglued" here ?) Edited February 26, 2017 by steppenw0lf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1330 Posted February 26, 2017 Do I really have to explain ? Why is this so difficult to grab ? The tone of these two interrogatives is a bit aggressive ... And perhaps bordering on unfriendly. I agree that the X1D at the present time is turning out to be less attractive than when it was a concept that was not yet actualized. Seems to have a number of drawbacks ... And you are correct that the cameras 35 versus MF fill different needs and desires ... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxo Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1331 Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) I think about a different aspect: I still own the nice Zeiss V-lenses for my 203FE. (I just can't sell it, still medium format slides are important to me). These V-lenses can't be used with the X1D, even the CFE lenses with central shutter. This is a drawback to me. The only offering is: waiting for the 50c II back, which is announced. But then I still have no digital body with an AF lens. Therefore I think about a Fuji GFX, if V-lenses can be adapted. This should be possible, as the GFX has a shutter. Then I could buy AF lenses step by step as needed and otherwise use my favoured V-lenses. But there is still another possibility: the next SL body will have 50 Mpx, this would be the best solution to me. Two bodies (a fast 24MPx body and a high resolution slower 50Mpx body). This would save me lot of money. An increase from 24 to 36 MPx would be too small to justify an upgrade, since I aim for an increase in resolution of 50%. I wonder whether there are more SL customers interested in a second, high resolution SL body? I'm curious..... PS: currently it is said, that the next generation of full format sensor will have 70 Mpx. Therefore 50 Mpx should be possible for the next SL Edited February 26, 2017 by saxo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1332 Posted February 26, 2017 A high-res SL is certainly possible; the question is the extent to which a 50 MP sensor will slow down the camera (10+ fps, etc). Leica could also aim for two versions of the SL: One with high MP in focus, another with high throughput in focus. But before a new SL is announced, Leica will likely upgrade the S-line with a higher-res sensor and an updated Maestro image/video processor. With the new Hassey and Fuji 'medium format' offerings, both the SL and S lines need to be refreshed in order to maintain shares in an increasingly demanding and competitive market. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1333 Posted February 26, 2017 Not a big deal that it is not possible to call a clumsy lens a clumsy lens. A rose is a rose ... Stick to the topic, any small lenses in sight for the X1D ? No thanks for the last remark of docmoore. Nobody needs this. The thread is already full of remarks of this level. And I say it again. Please enjoy the camera. But do not behave like a freshly fallen in love - who beats up anybody who finds the smallest fault in his lover. What do you loose if you agree that the cameras are too different to make a useful comparison ? What unfriendly remarks will follow now again ? (It's not a big deal, just the same this thread is full of unfriendly remarks, like very few others. Surprising to see grownups behave like that. What has become "unglued" here ?) Yeah, right. The X1d like all other medium format cameras has to have a lens wide enough to handle a sensor that is considerably larger than 35mm sensor. They aren't going to produce an M size lens for a medium format camera. If you don't like that wide of a lens and it causes you to feel inconvenienced, not the camera for you. Why you can't stand to read that someone else likes it, a mystery. And, at least I haven't read anyone putting down the SL in this thread. Think most, like me, are just curious about upcoming cameras. They are totally different cameras. It is kind of a stupid thread, comparing the two I have to agree. But since someone started it, has become a source for good info for the curious about the X1d and interesting discussions. Sorry for you that you take offense to anyone that disagrees with your opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1334 Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Your answer is exactly of the type mentioned ; attacks and tips how to behave for others. But no self-reflection that this is bad style and that first everybody has to mind his own words, to produce a friendly atmosphere. Why can't you simply stand that somebody finds a few weak spots with this camera ? Without attacking him for this ? Your answer shows that you take offence and instinctively you reproach this to others. Remember ? It is no big deal here. So not necessary to fight with unfriendly means.... The X1d has bigger lenses because of the shutter .... Simply compare to others. All well known. Edited February 26, 2017 by steppenw0lf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1335 Posted February 26, 2017 Your answer is exactly of the type mentioned ; attacks and tips how to behave for others. But no self-reflection that this is bad style and that first everybody has to mind his own words, to produce a friendly atmosphere. Why can't you simply stand that somebody finds a few weak spots with this camera ? Without attacking him for this ? Your answer shows that you take offence and instinctively you reproach this to others. Remember ? It is no big deal here. So not necessary to fight with unfriendly means.... The X1d has bigger lenses because of the shutter .... Simply compare to others. All well known. No comment on your personal attacks. No, the sensor is HUGE on the X1d. End of story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1336 Posted February 26, 2017 Finally got my hands on an XD1 to test out. Have to say, very impressed! Didn't try to tether it so can't confirm if all that works fine or not. But, everything else worked great that I tested. The images when downloaded blew me away. Seriously considering dumping all my M gear. I will take a deep breath and pause before making that decision, however! It's beautifully designed more than any other camera I have used to date. Feels great in the hands. Incredibly compact yet not dense feeling like the M. I will confirm the EVF has slight magenta tint so far, but really will mostly use that for framing and wouldn't bother me. Perhaps that will be improved. The rear display is lovely. And without the lens hood with the 45 lens, it will fit in my small Billingham Hadley bag very comfortably! Doubt can do that with the GFX on the horizon. Not a speed demon though. It's very very slow by 35mm camera standards, and I haven't had my hands on other digital medium format cameras to compare to. So, that's a super plus for the SL and M for many occasions and reason I may still hang onto my M. But if you like medium format, it's wonderful. It takes patience to shoot. Will get one! For a variety of reason the X1D gets a bad rep on here, but like you, i found the photos from it to be absolutely stunning and palpably different from M photos. The handling was for the most part great, as in really, really delightful to use in the way I usually use a camera. I'm very happy that Hasselblad have given us a camera that is distinct from anything else around. I hope they prosper. I'll have one eventually. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1337 Posted February 26, 2017 Over the many months of waiting and reading many, many comments, impressions, reviews, et cetera. And then over the past couple of months as the cameras started surfacing in users hands, where it has come to for me is that the SL and M-D, for me, represent a perfectly balanced, complementary photographic kit. I'm adding the 90-280 zoom to the SL, and a Leica 50mm to the M, and selling off the lenses those replace and the other bodies, cameras, and systems that I no longer need. The X1D is much more like the M than the SL in terms of what it can do, while it is much more like the SL in its size and weight. At some point I will decide whether its capabilities beyond what the M does are compelling enough for me to add it to the kit for yet a third complement to the other two. It can't replace either, but it can complement them very nicely. It's a very expensive addition so to do that I'll sell off my existing Hasselblad 500CM system, Nikon 9000 scanner, and maybe even the SWC ... although that last will be the last to go, if it does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1338 Posted February 26, 2017 The X1D was to replace the M60, for me (SL and Monochrom complement each other nicely). I'm holding off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski542002 Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1339 Posted February 26, 2017 A high-res SL is certainly possible; the question is the extent to which a 50 MP sensor will slow down the camera (10+ fps, etc). Leica could also aim for two versions of the SL: One with high MP in focus, another with high throughput in focus. But before a new SL is announced, Leica will likely upgrade the S-line with a higher-res sensor and an updated Maestro image/video processor. With the new Hassey and Fuji 'medium format' offerings, both the SL and S lines need to be refreshed in order to maintain shares in an increasingly demanding and competitive market. Love my SL, and if they released a 50mp sensor version, I'd buy in a heartbeat, keeping the current iteration as well. Some clients just demand more MP, and I'd rather not move up to MF. I find the SL system to be extremely flexible for 95% of my shooting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted February 26, 2017 Share #1340 Posted February 26, 2017 I think about a different aspect: I still own the nice Zeiss V-lenses for my 203FE. (I just can't sell it, still medium format slides are important to me). These V-lenses can't be used with the X1D, even the CFE lenses with central shutter. This is a drawback to me. The only offering is: waiting for the 50c II back, which is announced. But then I still have no digital body with an AF lens. Therefore I think about a Fuji GFX, if V-lenses can be adapted. This should be possible, as the GFX has a shutter. Then I could buy AF lenses step by step as needed and otherwise use my favoured V-lenses. But there is still another possibility: the next SL body will have 50 Mpx, this would be the best solution to me. Two bodies (a fast 24MPx body and a high resolution slower 50Mpx body). This would save me lot of money. An increase from 24 to 36 MPx would be too small to justify an upgrade, since I aim for an increase in resolution of 50%. I wonder whether there are more SL customers interested in a second, high resolution SL body? I'm curious..... PS: currently it is said, that the next generation of full format sensor will have 70 Mpx. Therefore 50 Mpx should be possible for the next SL Love my SL, and if they released a 50mp sensor version, I'd buy in a heartbeat, keeping the current iteration as well. Some clients just demand more MP, and I'd rather not move up to MF. I find the SL system to be extremely flexible for 95% of my shooting. Third that. I would buy a high-res SL immediately. And I think it would be a very smart move on Leica's part to have a high-speed, 24Mp SL (the current one), and a low-speed, high-Mp (42? 50?) SL side by side. Best, Vieri 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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