What are the chances that the new M will have inbuilt IS?

[jaapv]

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In my opinion, the increased thickness is a problem.

 

As far as I know the increased thickness of the M digital cameras (M8, M9 ans M) is responsable for the 0,68 magnification. Leica had the choice to make the front glass of the viewfinder larger or to decrease the magnification. 

 

Those bodies would have been even ticker if Leica hadn't choose to make the bayonet mount stick out more of the front of the digital Ms than on the film Ms. 

 

The normal magnification was/is 0,72 on the vast majority of the film Ms from the M2 up to the new M-A. The exception being the M3/MP (0,91) M6J (0,85) and the 0,85 and 0,58 versions of some of the later Ms.

 

0,68 may be better when using a 28mm on the M, but it decrease the focusing accuracy with lenses like the Noctilux, 75, 90 and 135mm. Together with the fact that a sensor need more accuracy than a film, it was a drawback. 

 

The SL body shows us that Leica could make the M digital much slimmer if they decided to make the bayonet mount stick even more of the front of the body. 

 

But this may have induced some problems with the connection of the wheeled rangefinder lever to the rangefinder. 

 

And the body would have been slimmer but the total length of the body + lens would have been the same. 

Not may, but will

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[edwardkaraa]

Just one more thing that can go wrong, better not.

[hoppyman]

My guess would be no. One aspect to consider is the way that the current design and all of the supporting/calibration machinery in Wetzlar works for the sensor assembly positioning with reference to the lens flange and the RF mechanism alignment of course.
A radical change in the sensor assembly design would likely require completely different tooling, testing and procedures too. At the same time the existing would need to be maintained too. AF systems have very different design requirements and possibilities  of course.

My guess is that the M line will continue with the same fundamentals while image stabilisation and AF developments etc will all be focused on the other systems.

[Peter Kilmister]

Image stabilisation can be improved by taking more water with your usual nightcap. Also hang on to walls, bannisters, and rails whenever possible.

 

How did HCB manage in his day?

 

IS works well for video if hand held. The SL does that. Needed in the M? Probably not. Handy if it turns up but that's it.

[james.liam]

 

 

Image stabilisation can be improved by taking more water with your usual nightcap. Also hang on to walls, bannisters, and rails whenever possible.

How did HCB manage in his day?

IS works well for video if hand held. The SL does that. Needed in the M? Probably not. Handy if it turns up but that's it.

 

Use longer R lenses on an adapter and yes, IBIS is more than just an affectation. If the MP count leaps to 36 or more (doubt it), again,  IBIS will be very helpful as pixel size diminishes and motion artifact become more apparent; this particular issue ruined the D800 for many a (? former) Nikonian.

[Lax Jought]

My guess would be no. One aspect to consider is the way that the current design and all of the supporting/calibration machinery in Wetzlar works for the sensor assembly positioning with reference to the lens flange and the RF mechanism alignment of course.

A radical change in the sensor assembly design would likely require completely different tooling, testing and procedures too. At the same time the existing would need to be maintained too. AF systems have very different design requirements and possibilities  of course.

 

My guess is that the M line will continue with the same fundamentals while image stabilisation and AF developments etc will all be focused on the other systems.

 

That completely makes sense.  I guess I'm going to have to look at the A7s II for video.  I was hoping to have an all-in-one package with the M, now that would be my perfect camera.

[Lax Jought]

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How did HCB manage in his day?

 

IS works well for video if hand held. The SL does that. Needed in the M? Probably not. Handy if it turns up but that's it.

 

HCB does not have any experience with video, unfortunately.  And the SL does not have inbuilt IS either. 

[Lax Jought]

 

I don't think I'd mind a bit of protrusion. I suppose how much protrusion is the question, but I would understand if it significantly impacted on the classic look of the M.

[Lax Jought]

What I meant is that using faster shutter speeds (even 1/125 in low light would be great in most circumstances), as long as you are able to push the ISO up at a given aperture and retain acceptable IQ, can reduce the need for IS to some extent (although we're not going to get 3-4 stops of sensor improvement overnight...).

Video is indeed a different story. But then there are other cameras, including the SL, which seem to be better suited to video than the M.

Ah yes I understand what you mean now.

 

Re video - I did have my heart set on the SL until I realised that it didn't have inbuilt IS.

[Peter H]

I don't think I'd mind a bit of protrusion. I suppose how much protrusion is the question, but I would understand if it significantly impacted on the classic look of the M.

 

 

I'm not too concerned about the classic look because I doubt Leica would make an ugly M, (as long as they don't mess about with silly colours!) but the question of the degree of protrusion is worth thinking about. If it's no more than the equivalent of a small adapter ring, would it be so bad? Japan suggested it might only be a matter of a few mm, like a filter ring perhaps, which might be very noticeable on the whole body, but on the mount alone, probably much less so. It probably comes down to how great an advantage you believe there is in IS.

[epand56]

According to people whish-lists, looks like the future of M cameras is something I'm not at all interested in. Image Stabilizer is the antithesis of photography, in my opinion, at least of the kind of photography I like, with all those human errors and those weaknesses that makes a picture look interesting. I think my M 240 has enough useless buttons already. And given that each button costs some 500 euros more each time an M camera hits the market, I think I will stick with mine. She will join me on my last journey on a burning Viking boat 

[Lax Jought]

I'm not too concerned about the classic look because I doubt Leica would make an ugly M, (as long as they don't mess about with silly colours!) but the question of the degree of protrusion is worth thinking about. If it's no more than the equivalent of a small adapter ring, would it be so bad? Japan suggested it might only be a matter of a few mm, like a filter ring perhaps, which might be very noticeable on the whole body, but on the mount alone, probably much less so. It probably comes down to how great an advantage you believe there is in IS.

 

I agree with that. 

 

Also, are you talking about jaap...?

[Lax Jought]

According to people whish-lists, looks like the future of M cameras is something I'm not at all interested in. Image Stabilizer is the antithesis of photography, in my opinion, at least of the kind of photography I like, with all those human errors and those weaknesses that makes a picture look interesting. I think my M 240 has enough useless buttons already. And given that each button costs some 500 euros more each time an M camera hits the market, I think I will stick with mine. She will join me on my last journey on a burning Viking boat 

 

Why wait for the future when you have the M262 in the present?  And everything else that came before the M240?

[Peter H]

I agree with that.

 

Also, are you talking about jaap...?

My spell-checker prefers Japan.

 

Apologies to all concerned.

[Lax Jought]

My spell-checker prefers Japan.

 

Apologies to all concerned.

 

To be honest, for a long time I thought he was Japanese.

[adli]

One can debate to death weather IS is desired ot not, the next M will not have it anyway.

[Peter H]

One can debate to death weather IS is desired ot not, the next M will not have it anyway.

 

 

You're probably right, but it's a pleasant and harmless enough way of wasting time. Much like most photography, really.

[Lax Jought]

According to the latest rumours from Leica Rumours regarding a new line of cinema lenses from Leica, the next M is alleged to have some 'serious'video features. Still no chance of IS,I presume? Cinema lenses don't usually come with IS.

I'd love to post the link to the specific Leica Rumours website but the forum is not giving me the option to copy and paste, nor embed a link.

 

*edited - here's the link:

 

http://leicarumors.com/2016/07/18/leica-rumored-to-announce-a-new-line-of-m-cinema-lenses.aspx/

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Look here: Leica M

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I'd love to post the link to the specific Leica Rumours website but the forum is not giving me the option to copy and paste, nor embed a link.

1) Copy the link, e.g. from the address field in the browser

2) Place the cursor into the text field where you type your post

3) press "Insert" (or cmd-V or whatever it takes to paste)

 

-or-

 

1) Select a word or phrase

2) click on this icon: 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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3) insert the URL

[Lax Jought]

1) Copy the link, e.g. from the address field in the browser

2) Place the cursor into the text field where you type your post

3) press "Insert" (or cmd-V or whatever it takes to paste)

 

-or-

 

1) Select a word or phrase

2) click on this icon: Ohne Titel.png

3) insert the URL

 

 

Hi Pop, thanks for that but I should have clarified that I was accessing the forum on my mobile phone and it didn't give me the option of copying and pasting, and/or embedding.  I'm home now so I'll edit my post and embed it.