Who uses the SL professionally? and can you post professional images used from the SL?

[ramarren]

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The centre focussing point is probably the least used zone in the whole frame (for me) the point of interest is generally better placed aesthetically towards an edge about a third usually.

 

When shooting a portrait it's going to take a number of frames while the subject relaxes and the exact positioning of the camera is determined. In the example above the head is placed too centrally really (I pulled it out of the set quickly), so better shots were taken later for both expression and composition.

 

My rambling point is, I need the focus point to stay where it is for the duration of the sequence of portraits. It's interesting to hear that with the 24-90 it does stay in place, implying that it's just a firmware tweak to do the same with M lenses.

 

 

I conjecture that the focus point stays where you put it with the SL24-90 lens because it is part of the auto-focusing algorithm, whereas with an adapted lens (M or R), there is no auto-focusing algorithm in play and when you magnify it just invokes the center point after initializing the magnification mode. IOW: The SL is not remembering the state of the magnification since that's a part of the AF system state, which doesn't exist with manual lenses. 

 

I center-focus about 99.9% of the time, so it's obvious that there are different methodologies to this. An option to retain the focus point under magnification would be good (with both manual as well as AF lenses), as would an option to have a one-press return to center. In the meanwhile, we adapt. 

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[scott kirkpatrick]

The SL is a testimony to the effects of functional overload.  My Fuji X Pro2 (with the more conventional festoon of single-purpose but re-programmable buttons) has a joystick used only for AF targetting.  It stays put, but recenters when you press it in (twice).  On a tripod this would certainly make sense, but even handheld, I prefer that it stay put.  Focus magnification utilizes different controls.

 

When we get into these user interface philosophy debates, it is useful to see how other design teams have solved similar problems, but you have to consider each solution as a whole, not piece by piece.

 

scott

[ramarren]

When using a tripod is when I'm most likely to use the LCD ... and then with the SL lens, touch to set the focus point and focus, I can recenter with a double-tap instantly, and the focus point stays put otherwise. I often use the SL app on the iPad to work tethered wirelessly in this mode too. 

 

Yes, it's important to consider the whole system and the particular use. 

[mgrayson3]

Mark Mann uses an S(006) and an SL professionally. His B+W pictures from Cannes were all done with the SL. They're not on his website yet, but markmannphoto on instagram will show a bunch.

 

--Matt

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The SL is a testimony to the effects of functional overload.  My Fuji X Pro2 (with the more conventional festoon of single-purpose but re-programmable buttons) has a joystick used only for AF targetting.  It stays put, but recenters when you press it in (twice).  On a tripod this would certainly make sense, but even handheld, I prefer that it stay put.  Focus magnification utilizes different controls.

 

When we get into these user interface philosophy debates, it is useful to see how other design teams have solved similar problems, but you have to consider each solution as a whole, not piece by piece.

 

scott

 

 

I wonder if the SL joystick could be programmed to centre on a long press? Shouldn't interfere with the single press functions.

 

I really like my XPro2. How do you like it?

 

There's things from each I prefer. I prefer the buttons on the SL, even unlabelled. But on the XPro2 the joystick will move the AF point diagonally, which is great. The SL has the better EVF but the Fuji has a better implementation of "exposure" preview. On the XPro 2 the battery life is woeful but it also focuses really well in low light. Somewhere in between them is my ideal working camera. Logically the Fuji might be a bit ahead but something still has me reaching for the SL when i can. Hard to pinpoint what it is exactly.

 

Gordon

[LD_50]

I wonder if the SL joystick could be programmed to centre on a long press? Shouldn't interfere with the single press functions.

 

I really like my XPro2. How do you like it?

 

There's things from each I prefer. I prefer the buttons on the SL, even unlabelled. But on the XPro2 the joystick will move the AF point diagonally, which is great. The SL has the better EVF but the Fuji has a better implementation of "exposure" preview. On the XPro 2 the battery life is woeful but it also focuses really well in low light. Somewhere in between them is my ideal working camera. Logically the Fuji might be a bit ahead but something still has me reaching for the SL when i can. Hard to pinpoint what it is exactly.

 

Gordon

 

For those of us with SL set to manual focus with joystick controlling AF, long press is already used for AF-on. I would suggest in this case either a quick double tap to center or perhaps a rapid clockwise motion. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

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I wonder if the SL joystick could be programmed to centre on a long press? Shouldn't interfere with the single press functions.

 

I really like my XPro2. How do you like it?

 

There's things from each I prefer. I prefer the buttons on the SL, even unlabelled. But on the XPro2 the joystick will move the AF point diagonally, which is great. The SL has the better EVF but the Fuji has a better implementation of "exposure" preview. On the XPro 2 the battery life is woeful but it also focuses really well in low light. Somewhere in between them is my ideal working camera. Logically the Fuji might be a bit ahead but something still has me reaching for the SL when i can. Hard to pinpoint what it is exactly.

 

Gordon

 

I haven't had the XPro2 long enough to be sure, but I find I am using it a lot.  Its controls and its viewfinder are definitely something the next M iteration should study and learn from.  The lenses and the AF performance are still a mixed bag, some with fairly slow AF, and some which need to be stopped down for optimum image quality.  I have only shot with the 23/1.4 so far, but tried some of the other lenses in the store.  The 35 SX-FLE on my M does a better job, especially around the edges of the frame.  The viewfinder is nice, but curiously, it only registers roll and not pitch, which is more important shooting with wide angles.  It's a lot of fun to shoot with, but I also reach for an M or SL when it really counts.  I just ordered the new 35/2.0 fast focusing, sharp but software corrected Fujinon XF WR (weather resist) for about the price of a Novoflex adapter...

 

scott

[John Z. Goriup]

I wonder if the SL joystick could be programmed to centre on a long press? Shouldn't interfere with the single press functions.

 

I really like my XPro2. How do you like it?

 

There's things from each I prefer. I prefer the buttons on the SL, even unlabelled. But on the XPro2 the joystick will move the AF point diagonally, which is great. The SL has the better EVF but the Fuji has a better implementation of "exposure" preview. On the XPro 2 the battery life is woeful but it also focuses really well in low light. Somewhere in between them is my ideal working camera. Logically the Fuji might be a bit ahead but something still has me reaching for the SL when i can. Hard to pinpoint what it is exactly.

 

Gordon

 

 

 

...............are you quite sure it isn't something as simple as compelling image quality ?

 

JZG

[FlashGordonPhotography]

...............are you quite sure it isn't something as simple as compelling image quality ?

 

JZG

 

Yep.

 

Both cameras are capable of stunning results. The Fuji 16-55 (24-85 equivalent) is brilliant. If white balanced off the same point colours are remarkably similar using "provia" on the Fuji (using raw files at standard import in LR). The SL is about 2/3 of a stop better in noise at lower ISOs. The XPro2 has less noise than the SL at high ISO's but has some NR that can't be completely turned off so the SL hold details slightly better. I do prefer a bit of noise over lost detail but they're both good enough to use in a variety of situations. And assuming the use of a good lens neither the SL or the Fuji have the highest image quality of any camera I own. In small format cameras the A7R2 quite handily trumps both with raw files and the 645Z is better than all of them. the Fuji has significantly better jpegs than the SL, weighs half as much, has a full range of stellar lenses (the 56mm APD is worth the price of admission alone as is the 90mm), the firmware isn't full of holes and it's 1/5th the price.

 

For me, it's no longer about image quality. Different cameras are half a stop here and half a stop there. 90% of the time I can get what I want or what a client needs with any camera I own. It's about whether I can build a working system around that body. It's about how the camera feels in the hand and how it either gets in the way or out of the way when shooting. When I got the SL, it was the biggest slab of a thing (with 24-90) I'd bought in years. I thought I'd find it heavy and unwieldy. It looks like it's not going to fit in the hand well but it does. I got used to the weight very quickly and now really enjoy the balance of the SL and 24-90. It's beautifully built and that give me reassurance. The hardware is nearly exactly right, for me. The firmware still has some ways to go though. It's not an intuitive camera to use because the functions change if you add a flash or change modes. It's buggy with auto ISO. The EVF is hobbled by poor firmware implementation, especially with TTL flash and the lack of independent adjustment. Firmware 2.0 does give hope that Leica will continue to work the software to being as good as the hardware.

 

But I like the hardware enough to keep using it and work around its very average software until Leica get it right. With the new EF adaptor coming (I use T/S lenses often) all Leica need is a 40MP version in the same body and I could consolidate to a single brand.

 

I agree with Scott, that Leica would be wise to look at the XPro2 and learn from it. It's a fine camera. I particularly like it when pointing it at people. The skin tones are something else.

 

Gordon

[bilbrown]

It seems a bit of a shame that you had to pay for the rangefinder...

 

Um, no. They are different beasts and have different IQ.

 

Which I can tell immediately.

 

Like them both for the most part, a month in with the SL.

 

I don't use the AF lenses, btw. Currently just my M mount lenses. Thinking of some R.

 

It will be awhile before I get a native lens for the SL. I don't have a need for AF lenses currently.

[Vieri]

Yep.

 

Both cameras are capable of stunning results. The Fuji 16-55 (24-85 equivalent) is brilliant. If white balanced off the same point colours are remarkably similar using "provia" on the Fuji (using raw files at standard import in LR). The SL is about 2/3 of a stop better in noise at lower ISOs. The XPro2 has less noise than the SL at high ISO's but has some NR that can't be completely turned off so the SL hold details slightly better. I do prefer a bit of noise over lost detail but they're both good enough to use in a variety of situations. And assuming the use of a good lens neither the SL or the Fuji have the highest image quality of any camera I own. In small format cameras the A7R2 quite handily trumps both with raw files and the 645Z is better than all of them. the Fuji has significantly better jpegs than the SL, weighs half as much, has a full range of stellar lenses (the 56mm APD is worth the price of admission alone as is the 90mm), the firmware isn't full of holes and it's 1/5th the price.

 

For me, it's no longer about image quality. Different cameras are half a stop here and half a stop there. 90% of the time I can get what I want or what a client needs with any camera I own. It's about whether I can build a working system around that body. It's about how the camera feels in the hand and how it either gets in the way or out of the way when shooting. When I got the SL, it was the biggest slab of a thing (with 24-90) I'd bought in years. I thought I'd find it heavy and unwieldy. It looks like it's not going to fit in the hand well but it does. I got used to the weight very quickly and now really enjoy the balance of the SL and 24-90. It's beautifully built and that give me reassurance. The hardware is nearly exactly right, for me. The firmware still has some ways to go though. It's not an intuitive camera to use because the functions change if you add a flash or change modes. It's buggy with auto ISO. The EVF is hobbled by poor firmware implementation, especially with TTL flash and the lack of independent adjustment. Firmware 2.0 does give hope that Leica will continue to work the software to being as good as the hardware.

 

But I like the hardware enough to keep using it and work around its very average software until Leica get it right. With the new EF adaptor coming (I use T/S lenses often) all Leica need is a 40MP version in the same body and I could consolidate to a single brand.

 

I agree with Scott, that Leica would be wise to look at the XPro2 and learn from it. It's a fine camera. I particularly like it when pointing it at people. The skin tones are something else.

 

Gordon

 

Gordon,

 

very well put. I'd add something to all that, if I may. You say

 

"For me, it's no longer about image quality"

 

for me, it's always about image quality - however, I think that finally digital image recording technology is mature enough that most cameras would produce a file good enough for most applications. And, for those applications out of the average, we have cameras doing that too. It has not been so until the last generation of cameras or so, IMHO, but today we have cameras working well at what was considered extremely high ISO until a couple of years ago, with enough Mp to print a mural-sized photograph, fast enough to shoot a F1 car, all in small packages, with great battery life, great ergonomics, etc. Surely, not everything of the above comes in the same package, but - as you said - all manufacturer are very close to offering a complete, one-brand solution covering the needs of most photographers (Leica, in particular, to do that needs a high Mp version of the SL badly, IMHO, and at least one more native SL lens covering the WA).

 

So, if you turn the question around and look at it from the other side of the table, the question becomes: what will manufacturer do to sell us the next model? As I said, Leica has a chance with a high-Mp SL. Leica and the SL aside, I can see a need for better optics, to cope with higher Mp sensors (and we are seeing some already); but after that, we might soon be back to a camera lifespan cycle closer to that of the pre-digital era - perhaps not as long, but certainly longer than the model-a-year or so that we are seeing now. Unless there are amazing technology leaps awaiting that I don't know of, of course 

 

Overall, great times to be a (digital) photographer! 

 

Best,

 

Vieri

[jrp]

Better batteries and more efficient processors will give us better autofocus and cleaner pictures.

 

Yes, sensors will get better, as they have been doing, but rather than pure resolution, we will be looking at better colour and higher dynamic range.

 

I suspect that cameras could either become more programmable or simpler (so that the pictures can be deployed with minimum fuss / greater flexibility).

 

The camera makers will need to get their skates on, as the phone makers have started to eat their lunch already and there is a lot of resource being thrown at phone camera tech.  (I think that I read somewhere that Apple have 800 people working in their iPhone camera division, which does not cover manufacturing.)

[JAM]

Yes I'm using the SL system

 

Here are some recent shots

 

http://www.armstrong-millar.com/SHWEB

 

http://www.armstrong-Millar.com/TROX

[sillbeers15]

Another review:  Leica SL - 6 Months Field Test by Kristen Meister of Scenic Traverse Photography

 

http://scenictraverse.com/blog/2016/6/20/leicasl6monthfieldtest