The Leica M-D thread - merged.

[IkarusJohn]

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I don't think anyone said that an LCD-less digital was for everyone or for all occasions; and certainly I'm not trying to convince you it's for you. I apologise if my explanations of why it works for me in some way bother you.  The LCD is just another piece of electronics which will breakdown, offers information and functionality I have found I don't need on this camera. It is a distraction, for me.  I don't recall saying it should be for you too ...

 

Not sure you're quite right about the state of film photography. Sure, it's not mainstream, but rumours of its death are over-rated. Leica is in a niche market, and has said on a number of occasions that they will continue to make film cameras for so long as there's demand. Apart from the a la carte cameras, Leica offers three film cameras - M7, MP & M-A; and there remain a number of film manufacturers. 

 

So, by all means call me fringe, I don't mind. Leica produces cameras that meet those fringe needs, as well as a digital camera that looks like a film camera, has an optical viewfinder and manual lenses - that's hardly mainstream; and it cost how much?  How many MP? 

 

Don't misinterpret my preferences for criticism of yours. The point is, Leica makes cameras which I love, and they make ones which suit you too, apparently. I'm not calling your choices ridiculous.

Edited May 3, 2016 by IkarusJohn

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[MT0227]

What you are listing below are "features", not adjustments....most of which are set once and and left alone, based on need and or personal preference.  

 

I'm using the same 4 simple  "adjustments" on my digital and film M's to control the result:  Focus, Shutter Speed, Aperture and ISO.

 

I do use the LV feature from time to time, and 3 profiles to setup starting points for well lit vs. low light scenarios.  I'll also use my EVF occasionally when shooting within a very thin DOF to ensure critical focus (my eyes are not what they used to be).  Again, all functional features/benefits and not all that complicated to figure out how and why you would use them. 

 

Some others you mention can speed up workflow like shooting in RAW and JPG, if you need to deliver JPGs....this would be the same for film and would require you to have hi and low res scans.  Same can be said with white balance; set to auto or specific condition...either way this is typically finalized in PP regardless of the format you choose (digital/film)   The custom feature/setting menu for the digital M is a one sided post-it-note in comparison to something like a D4 which is more like "War and Peace".  

 

 

Digital certainly provides additional features that can be used to assist in your workflow prior to and after taking the shot; if they serve no purpose set them,forget them and just use what you need; or save some money up front and just stick to flim.

 

 

Okay, it's not simpler. 

 

It's digital photography with the 4 adjustments necessary to capture a DNG image, no Jpeg, no white balance, no bracketing, no profiles, no video, no EVF, no live view, no review etc etc

 

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by MT0227

[ECohen]

I don't think anyone said that an LCD-less digital was for everyone or for all occasions; and certainly I'm not trying to convince you it's for you. I apologise if my explanations of why it works for me in some way bother you.  The LCD is just another piece of electronics which will breakdown, offers information and functionality I have found I don't need on this camera. It is a distraction, for me.  I don't recall saying it should be for you too ...

 

Not sure you're quite right about the state of film photography. Sure, it's not mainstream, but rumours of its death are over-rated. Leica is in a niche market, and has said on a number of occasions that they will continue to make film cameras for so long as there's demand. Apart from the a la carte cameras, Leica offers three film cameras - M7, MP & M-A; and there remain a number of film manufacturers. 

 

So, by all means call me fringe, I don't mind. Leica produces cameras that meet those fringe needs, as well as a digital camera that looks like a film camera, has an optical viewfinder and manual lenses - that's hardly mainstream; and it cost how much?  How many MP? 

 

Don't misinterpret my preferences for criticism of yours. The point is, Leica makes cameras which I love, and they make ones which suit you too, apparently. I'm not calling your choices ridiculous.

 

 

Please accept my apology I guess I'm a little too passionate and opinionated ....not to mention stuck in my ways. It was never my intention to insult you.

I sincerely ment no harm just spirited discussion ......I am truly sorry

[IkarusJohn]

Please accept my apology I guess I'm a little too passionate and opinionated ....not to mention stuck in my ways. It was never my intention to insult you.

I sincerely ment no harm just spirited discussion ......I am truly sorry

 

Nothing wrong with passion (Leica seems to have that effect) or opinions - we all have them.

 

Thank you for your apology - I'm not insulted, and no harm was done.  I now feel I have overstated my irritation.  I am genuinely interested in what people think of these cameras ...

[NZDavid]

I've been away so am just catching up on all the fuss. A quick question: How do you check the exposure counter, battery life, or change white balance? 

 

I think the main thing about the MD is it encourages a different mindset: Don't chimp. I find LCDs can be useful but at least on the M9 they only give you an approximation of the final result; it's best to wait and see it full size once downloaded. Often some cropping or slight adjustment may be needed. Being used to film, I try to keep adjustments as minimal as possible.

 

Also, LCDs are damned difficult to see in bright light. I shot lots of pictures of golden sands and blue skies in the Tasman area recently. I checked the LCD but it wasn't a lot of use. In the film era, we'd all take fewer pictures and wait sometimes weeks (in the case of slides) to see the results.

 

I am sure the difference in philosophical approach is worthy of thoughtful analysis by Erwin Putts. I'll look out for it.

[Budfox]

The battery percentage, and estimate of remaining shots left on the SD card are displayed via the viewfinder red LED displays. The readings are accessed by sequential pushes of the repurposed top "video" button. For white balance, as per every other digital camera, there is no option to adjust white balance when using the RAW image format - this is always done in post processing.

[jmahto]

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Next camera in line. M-DS. An M-D with Single 35cron glued to it. It is even simpler.

[NZDavid]

The battery percentage, and estimate of remaining shots left on the SD card are displayed via the viewfinder red LED displays. The readings are accessed by sequential pushes of the repurposed top "video" button. For white balance, as per every other digital camera, there is no option to adjust white balance when using the RAW image format - this is always done in post processing.

 

 

Well, thanks for that. Sounds a bit of a fiddly two-stage process. A film-style exposure counter on the top plate wouldn't look out of place and would be simpler. As for white balance and RAW, surely you can shoot in JPEG, too? How do you change from one to the other?

[MT0227]

Well, thanks for that. Sounds a bit of a fiddly two-stage process. A film-style exposure counter on the top plate wouldn't look out of place and would be simpler. As for white balance and RAW, surely you can shoot in JPEG, too? How do you change from one to the other?

 

 

• Remaining capacity and number of pictures/time  - hit the info button, the answer is displayed in the lower left hand side of the LCD.
• File Format change - hit the set button, scroll down 3 and select File Format, choose your option.
• White Balance - hit the set button, scroll down 2 and select White Balance, choose your option.

As simple an easy as it gets.

[jcraf]

Well, thanks for that. Sounds a bit of a fiddly two-stage process. A film-style exposure counter on the top plate wouldn't look out of place and would be simpler. As for white balance and RAW, surely you can shoot in JPEG, too? How do you change from one to the other?

 

David

No, the M-D can only shoot in RAW (DNG) format. 

Regards

[NZDavid]

 

• Remaining capacity and number of pictures/time  - hit the info button, the answer is displayed in the lower left hand side of the LCD.
• File Format change - hit the set button, scroll down 3 and select File Format, choose your option.
• White Balance - hit the set button, scroll down 2 and select White Balance, choose your option.

As simple an easy as it gets.

 

 

 

 

Er...there is no LCD on the M-D! Do you mean the viewfinder? None of the buttons mentioned are there on the M-D.

 

File format? JPEG or RAW only? There seems to be some confusion. If it really shoots only in RAW that will decreases the number of exposures available on each SD card.

[jcraf]

Er...there is no LCD on the M-D! Do you mean the viewfinder? None of the buttons mentioned are there on the M-D.

 

File format? JPEG or RAW only? There seems to be some confusion. If it really shoots only in RAW that will decreases the number of exposures available on each SD card.

 

No confusion re file formats. I have an M-D. It only shoots RAW.

[pico]

With all the assistance technology, are we to hold digital camera photographers to a higher standard? Why not?

.

[NZDavid]

No confusion re file formats. I have an M-D. It only shoots RAW.

 

 

Then why does MT0227 say you can change formats? And there is NO LCD, and no info and set button. I assume this must be a mix-up. 

[Morry]

This will be a controversial topic forever but the positive side is nicely summarized in this article I think.

 

https://fstoppers.com/originals/defense-screenless-digital-leica-m-d-128158

 

 

Technology is now well covered by SL so if that is important it will be a better choice (to accompany with M lenses, the best if only SL could be smaller/lighter).

 

On the contrary M digital should remain to maintain balance between the technology and tradition.

 

In this context it appears the argument is mainly if we should give up playback/preview option for reasonable return, so the answer may vary for each and we all can decide as we wish.

 

 

In addition I find the other critics "higher price for less function is insane" not quite reasonable as Ms are already expensive in general from the first place, and at least from the cost perspective there should not be reasonable ground for M-D to be cheaper than M262...

Edited May 4, 2016 by Morry

[IkarusJohn]

Then why does MT0227 say you can change formats? And there is NO LCD, and no info and set button. I assume this must be a mix-up. 

 

What's your confusion, David?

 

The camera has no LCD and no buttons at all, apart from the video button, which now just tells you remaining battery charge and SD card space.  Therefore, no formats to change or anything really apart from ISO, shutter speed and aperture.

 

There are no Jpegs, as the camera delivers DNG only.  The sensor is the same 24MP from the M(240), so the files will be the same size and the SD cards will hold the same number of images - more, if you consider there's no Jpeg to save.

 

Apart from exposure (which you control in the traditional manner), that leaves only lens corrections (which are only made in camera for coded lenses) and white balance, which is the standard M(240) algorithm.

 

Cheers

John

[NZDavid]

 

• Remaining capacity and number of pictures/time  - hit the info button, the answer is displayed in the lower left hand side of the LCD.
• File Format change - hit the set button, scroll down 3 and select File Format, choose your option.
• White Balance - hit the set button, scroll down 2 and select White Balance, choose your option.

As simple an easy as it gets.

 

 

 

 

My confusion is because of this post. I assume he has the wrong camera!

 

Budfox (post #526) says you can see exposure counter and check battery by using repurposed video button and looking at a viewfinder display. 

 

So this is indeed a minimalist M camera! One image format. Auto white balance only. 

 

Compared with JPG only, RAW images take up more storage space and require more processing which may or not be a consideration. 

[IkarusJohn]

Ah, well.  If the M-D does what MT0227 says, then it is different from the M60.  The Info button he refers to is the Fn button on my camera, and what is the video button on the M(240).

 

I wonder what the file format he/she refers to is?

 

I asked Leica if they could set white balance at 5500K, and they said no.  It turns out they were right.  It's set at Auto for me.

 

Maybe I should not comment on this camera as I don't have one, I haven't read the manual and it seems it is different from the M60 in a number of respects.

 

Cheers

John

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[ramarren]

Well, thanks for that. Sounds a bit of a fiddly two-stage process. A film-style exposure counter on the top plate wouldn't look out of place and would be simpler. As for white balance and RAW, surely you can shoot in JPEG, too? How do you change from one to the other?

 

 

The M-D does not support JPEG image processing. It produces only raw files, in DNG format. 

[Manoleica]

Sounds a bit like a Track version of a hot sedan or coupe...   Many admire, many want, many cannot handle... Whatever it does or doesn't do, who cares.. Buy it, put it on a nice shelf  --  (My 27"iMac went in for service to-day. pulled the MBPro into Service -> LogicBoard died -> walked out of the Apple Store with 2 new Macs  Leica will have to wait until they offer something far more exciting than a "Track Version" -- to get my $$$$$$$$$'s --  ).......

Edited May 4, 2016 by Manoleica