marchyman Posted March 31, 2016 Share #1 Posted March 31, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm a new Leica M (262) user. I find I'm either looking at my fingers or I manage to accidentally change the aperture on the 75mm Summarit-M f/2.5 when shooting in portrait mode. Any suggestions as to a better way to hold the camera? My other rangefinder is an Olympus XA where the viewfinder is in the middle so the fingers of my left hand don't get in the way. Also, the XA is a lot lighter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Hi marchyman, Take a look here Shooting in portrait orientation. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LocalHero1953 Posted March 31, 2016 Share #2 Posted March 31, 2016 My left hand holds the focus ring from below in both portrait and landscape mode, with my thumb on the left. This doesn't seem to obscure the VF, and, holding the focus ring, it doesn't normally affect the aperture ring. But I've been doing this long enough not to think about it, and I don't have the Summarit: are the focus and aperture rings closer together than you expect? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdk Posted March 31, 2016 Share #3 Posted March 31, 2016 Practice holding and focusing the camera between serious shooting. Use will become nearly automatic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 31, 2016 Share #4 Posted March 31, 2016 As one of my instructors said, ages ago: "If God had wanted us to shoot vertical pictures, he wouldn't have put our eyes side-by-side." Fortunately, I ignored him. Anyway, here's a self-portrait of forum member Ed Terakopian, which shows how to hold a Leica vertically - index finger (only) under the lens to focus, thumb up or under the end of the camera. (Edit - see also my avatar at left). https://terakopian.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/leica-event-20120516-254-1.jpg Among other things, it will keep your index finger way back close to the camera, nowhere near the aperture ring. If you really must use both thumb and index finger on the lens (not really necessary with the light touch of Leica lenses, except the 75 f/1.4 and 90 f/2), just be sure your thumb stays in the empty space at the 6-8-o'clock position in that picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 31, 2016 Share #5 Posted March 31, 2016 You could just ask your subjects to lay down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted March 31, 2016 Share #6 Posted March 31, 2016 Shoot horizontally. Then crop vertically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted March 31, 2016 Share #7 Posted March 31, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) The M262 with a 75mm lens does become quite heavy....if you add a Thumbs Up unit to your camera you will find it really helps with camera handling. Apart from that just focus and meter in landscape format and then smoothly/gently/confidently rotate the camera to portrait, with the left hand remaining beneath the lens as the main support. This is where the Thumbs Up really comes in as an anchor for the right thumb. You will find with a bit more practice this manoeuvre soon becomes automatic for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 31, 2016 Share #8 Posted March 31, 2016 I have a thumby on my M. And I have taken to sliding my right pinky under the camera base as part of my grip. That seems to have solved me covering the rf window which i did all the time. The culprit was my right middle finger. I must have cleaned that thing a million times...... Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted April 1, 2016 My left hand holds the focus ring from below in both portrait and landscape mode, with my thumb on the left. This doesn't seem to obscure the VF, and, holding the focus ring, it doesn't normally affect the aperture ring. But I've been doing this long enough not to think about it, and I don't have the Summarit: are the focus and aperture rings closer together than you expect? The Summarit doesn't have a focus tab. The focus ring is about 15 mm wide. I must be grabbing it closer to the lens end which is about 1 mm from the aperture ring. I do have a universal focus tab ring on order. That may help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share #10 Posted April 1, 2016 https://terakopian.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/leica-event-20120516-254-1.jpg Among other things, it will keep your index finger way back close to the camera, nowhere near the aperture ring. Excellent! That grip works quite well. I see what was going on... my 75mm Summarit focus ring is stiff enough to require thumb and finger to rotate. That led me to keeping my thumb close to the ring which got fingers in the way of the viewfinder. The focus tab I've ordered will help, but even without that I can always move my thumb after adjusting focus. Holding the camera that way my finger isn't anywhere close to the aperture ring. Many thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share #11 Posted April 1, 2016 Shoot horizontally. Then crop vertically. I sometimes do that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted April 1, 2016 Share #12 Posted April 1, 2016 Trying to work out what the problem is. Start with the camera horizontal. Rotate anti-clockwise so that the shutter release is at the top and the viewfinder is at the bottom. Focus, Meter, Frame, Shoot. If focus is problematic in portrait, I'll sometimes focus and meter in landscape and then do the final framing in portrait. Looking back over recent work I seem to use portrait and landscape in a pretty balanced way - though of course it depends on the subject. Check: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ctribble/albums/72157666023683200 https://www.flickr.com/photos/ctribble/albums/72157664825072050 https://www.flickr.com/photos/ctribble/albums/72157666503671631 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 1, 2016 Share #13 Posted April 1, 2016 Portrait shooting with the M is one of the last remaining niggles I have with the camera. It's ergonomically bad, and viewfinder blockage is an issue, either chopping off someones head, or not being able to see what is happening with hands - both fundamentally important things while shooting a portrait. So the EVF goes someway to address this, but creates new issues too. The only way I can make it work is to rotate the camera to the right, rather than the traditional left, but this puts your wrist on a very hard and uncomfortable angle and rotates your shoulder uncomfortably too (particularly if you are wide shouldered), makes the pressing of the button awkward with your tendons on such a hard line, and when you're shooting all day long it becomes quite an annoyance. The grip certainly helps a lot. So does changing your shutter finger to your thumb for a while (while camera is rotated right so the shutter button is on bottom not top) The other alternative is to mostly hold and support the camera with the left hand, either holding the camera by the focus ring so you can focus, or with the flat of your hand on the base plate, and underneath with your thumb. This allows you to press the shutter with your index finger with a more natural angle on your wrist. But generally I will say I think portrait shooting with the M, well, sucks, and at times is enough for me to wonder about dropping the system altogether and use an SLR, or just shoot landscape and crop, or arrange and compose the shot so it works in landscape format too(something I do from time to time). I think a T Shaped grip for the tripod socket that allows easy reach of the focus ring would solve a lot of issues, something I have thought about making myself but worry about the load on the base plate. In so much as having your fingers accidentally knock things, or cover the rangefinder patch window, with practice this element goes away, but I strongly recommend the grip for this - it keeps your fingers nailed in one spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted April 1, 2016 Share #14 Posted April 1, 2016 It's so easy I rarely think about it, but I usually pre focus in landscape format and spin the camera around with the base of the camera resting against my left palm, shutter button downwards and operated by my right thumb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted April 1, 2016 Share #15 Posted April 1, 2016 ... and no thumbie, no grip. Again, I have problems seeing where the problem is. Same technique with Canon 5 series - I used to use the Canon 1 series with the integrated double grip, but so glad not to have to deal with the weight of those... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted April 1, 2016 Share #16 Posted April 1, 2016 This is my preferred portrait grip, with both elbows firmly to my body for minimum wavering-around potential. I can focus as easily while supporting the lens with my left hand in this orientation as in landscape, and I find this much steadier as well as more compact and less intrusive to others than the more traditional elbow-in-the-air grip. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258826-shooting-in-portrait-orientation/?do=findComment&comment=3018587'>More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 1, 2016 Share #17 Posted April 1, 2016 ... and no thumbie, no grip. Again, I have problems seeing where the problem is. Same technique with Canon 5 series - I used to use the Canon 1 series with the integrated double grip, but so glad not to have to deal with the weight of those... If you don't use the camera in the same way, if you don't use the same lenses, then sure you may not see where the problem lays. In casual use, or non sustained shooting, with the majority of lenses, I don't see it as a problem. But shooting certain things with a Noctilux, 75mm Summilux, 90mm Summicron etc, leaves a lot of guess work, for example on portraits - what the hands or face is doing - because of the viewfinder blockage covers either one depending on rotation. On top, an unnatural/awkward/uncomfortable positioning of the hands, which for lengths of time, creates some issues. It's not a deal breaker for me - but it is a distraction and it does effect the picture taking, it does mean you miss some things simply because you don't see them, and if you are continually faffing about with the camera changing orientation or trying to get comfortable then it becomes a distraction for you and the subject. I do see these things could be potentially addressed with design, going forward. Personally I would favour a little extra weight with a modular grip that gives better ergonomics in these circusmtances and an EVF that doesn't suck. But I doubt Leica would ever make a grip for this - it is just me wishing, or something I would have to create myself. The SL is certainly compelling in these circumstances and the best of both worlds but I would rather just add on something, for times I need it, rather than have a whole extra body to buy, maintain, insure, upgrade etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2016 Share #18 Posted April 1, 2016 Peter H does it like Henry C.-B. and Alfred E. It is the classical way, though even Leica manuals suggest for decades now, that it is better to shoot in portrait mode with the right arm up in the air, rather than with both elbows against the chest for more stability . But it could be, that Pete who often knows more than most of us, has found another one of the keys to longevity (Alfred E. 1898-1995)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 1, 2016 Share #19 Posted April 1, 2016 This is my preferred portrait grip, with both elbows firmly to my body for minimum wavering-around potential. I can focus as easily while supporting the lens with my left hand in this orientation as in landscape, and I find this much steadier as well as more compact and less intrusive to others than the more traditional elbow-in-the-air grip. I don't find this works well with the bigger lenses, and when focusing the lenses with a longer throw and heavier focus action. I don't find it secure and I find it better to have one hand free to just focus. This pic below is how I find the optional grip really helps with the lenses I am talking about, and also shows why I would like to have a deeper grip. Holding like this I have found the most relaxed angle on the wrist during sustained shooting, and means I can support the camera firmly and entirely in one one hand making focus very easy with the other too. Focus and hold in one hand I find can get awkward. It's fine like this but I don't find it ideal, your back and neck needs to curl in which in time starts to create issues. Nothing stops finder blockage though except for the crappy (IMO) evf on the 240. I'm hoping and expecting the next M's EVF will change things and I will have less concern. But a deeper grip would still be great, and with a decent EVF in place, a shutter release on the grip would be icing on the cake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted April 1, 2016 Share #20 Posted April 1, 2016 It is the classical way, though even Leica manuals suggest for decades now, that it is better to shoot in portrait mode with the right arm up in the air, rather than with both elbows against the chest for more stability . I personally would find that a very unnatural and uncomfortable position for repeated taking. I don't like illustrated method either, holding the camera between left thumb and index finger with gravity competing against the shutter finger isn't very secure because the camera is held by the fingertips and not 'cradled' in the hands. I prefer similar but with my right hand wrapped around the camera from the front (right palm facing inward), elbows in, right thumb operating the shutter and my left palm against the base for stability. We're all different and whatever works etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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