hepcat Posted April 13, 2016 Share #621 Posted April 13, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Whys that mate?? Because people use desaturation thinking that they're making the image b&w without understanding the tonality differences that true b&w records in. Merely desaturating a color image doesn't render colors in the correct shades of gray. Just like in the wet print days, it took a special paper to print color dye negatives into b&w silver halide prints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 Hi hepcat, Take a look here Leica Film Odyssey for a beginner. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
EoinC Posted April 13, 2016 Share #622 Posted April 13, 2016 Whys that mate?? I can't speak for Jaap, but my guess would be because desaturate takes no account of the information held in the colour channels - It just equalises the RGB levels. It won't make much difference when applied to a colour scan of a B&W negative, though, as there is very little remaining colour information. For converting a colour image to B&W, though, hitting "desaturate" is probably the least effective method. To see what I mean, Neil, try taking one of your colour digital images into LR's Develop module, hit "B&W", and then play with the colour sliders below. Similar can be done in PS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 13, 2016 Share #623 Posted April 13, 2016 All the answers so far have been excellent. Just a reminder that B&W films have color biases, but more significant is that if you desaturate you use give up control of color brightness. I, for example, like the outcome of a green filter in many situations. I find B&W films to be too insensitive to green, so I sometimes use a green filter. When shooting color and converting it to B&W I like to lighten and enhance the contrast of the green channel - just a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted April 13, 2016 Share #624 Posted April 13, 2016 Just a cautionary note, Neil as, following Pico's post, I know that you're now scouring B&H to get a bulk order of colour filters in - This is what happens when you forget to take a yellow contrast filter off a lens when you switch from b&w film to colour: b010 by Eoin Christie, on Flickr ...although it can be rescued back to slightly more viewer-friendly b&w... b009 by Eoin Christie, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted April 13, 2016 Share #625 Posted April 13, 2016 ...or some weird semi-correction colour render by someone kicking themselves for rattling off a whole film of mega-yellow Ektar 100... b002 by Eoin Christie, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted April 13, 2016 Share #626 Posted April 13, 2016 Leave the yellow, it looks like late afternoon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 14, 2016 Share #627 Posted April 14, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...or some weird semi-correction colour render by someone kicking themselves for rattling off a whole film of mega-yellow Ektar 100... b002 by Eoin Christie, on Flickr You can easily save the entire roll when you scan with Vuescan. There you can find the best possible color correction, saving your the bulk of getting that yellow tone out and then fine tune each file in Lightroom or photoshop. Sure you will have lesser skin tones then having not forgotten to take the filter off to beginn with but it can be saved. The color correction during scan is important here - a simple "white balance" correction in Lightroom or photoshop won't suffice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted April 14, 2016 Share #628 Posted April 14, 2016 Doc, you continually make disparaging remarks about digital throughout various threads, why can't you just be happy to enjoy your photos as they are without having to continually add "and it's better than digital such-and-such" to so many comments? I think that many of us enjoy using film alongside digital for many reasons, there's no reason for a state of war to exist. It becomes tiresome after a while. I couldn't agree more. It's getting very tiresome. This thread, and then Neil's early results and the positive and constructive comments from everyone actually got me interested in film again... but then it descends into this and all it does it push me away again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted April 14, 2016 Share #629 Posted April 14, 2016 I'm definitely seeing some color in my scanned black and white negatives. I've been using desaturate in PS and since reading your comments I won't do that any more. Eoin mentioned to just use the black and white tab in Lightroom which I will do if I see any color in the histogram. In Photoshop could it be possible to create a layer and open the hue/saturation slider and move all of those channels to the left or is it right...... Can't remember. As for shooting with filters I like the yellow/orange filter and will get that for my 21, 35 and 50 mm lenses. I've also decided to contact B&H and get the light stand capable of supporting my S and a lightbox to suite I already have the developing kit to develop my B&W film myself. So unless it all go tits up I should be self sufficient. Anyone got recommendations for paper A4 size to use for printing B&W. I have got some A3 ultrasmoth fine art paper but want something smaller to print on to check the outcome before printing on A3 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted April 14, 2016 Share #630 Posted April 14, 2016 You can easily save the entire roll when you scan with Vuescan. There you can find the best possible color correction, saving your the bulk of getting that yellow tone out and then fine tune each file in Lightroom or photoshop. Sure you will have lesser skin tones then having not forgotten to take the filter off to beginn with but it can be saved. The color correction during scan is important here - a simple "white balance" correction in Lightroom or photoshop won't suffice. Thanks, Menos, but it's not important to me. The purpose was just to advise what having the memory of a goldfish can do. I'm personally happy with b&w conversions of this film, and the whacko colour conversion was not done using white balance - It was just playing with colour channels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted April 14, 2016 Share #631 Posted April 14, 2016 Leave the yellow, it looks like late afternoon. ...on Planet Zarkon. Yes, I don't mind the yellow - I just mind being too much of a numpty to notice the filter was still on. Fortunately, I'm numpty enough not to mind too much . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted April 14, 2016 Share #632 Posted April 14, 2016 I'm definitely seeing some color in my scanned black and white negatives. That has a simple cause: the black and white negatives have been scanned by a "color scanner". The colors are, of course, pure artefacts and perfectly meaningless. It has a simple solution: since the colors are invented by the scanner, you can discard them by de-saturating the pictures. You could also separate the picture into its three constituent colors and discard two of them. This even might lead to marginally sharper images. The advice not to de-saturate images applies to images with true colors, i.e. with colors that were recorded by the lens on the film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted April 14, 2016 Share #633 Posted April 14, 2016 I'm definitely seeing some color in my scanned black and white negatives. I've been using desaturate in PS and since reading your comments I won't do that any more. Eoin mentioned to just use the black and white tab in Lightroom which I will do if I see any color in the histogram. In Photoshop could it be possible to create a layer and open the hue/saturation slider and move all of those channels to the left or is it right...... Can't remember. As for shooting with filters I like the yellow/orange filter and will get that for my 21, 35 and 50 mm lenses. I've also decided to contact B&H and get the light stand capable of supporting my S and a lightbox to suite I already have the developing kit to develop my B&W film myself. So unless it all go tits up I should be self sufficient. Anyone got recommendations for paper A4 size to use for printing B&W. I have got some A3 ultrasmoth fine art paper but want something smaller to print on to check the outcome before printing on A3 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I generally use Museo Silver Rag for B&W inkjet printing. It's a semi-gloss paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted April 15, 2016 Share #634 Posted April 15, 2016 I generally use Museo Silver Rag for B&W inkjet printing. It's a semi-gloss paper. Is that ready available in KL mate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted April 15, 2016 Share #635 Posted April 15, 2016 If you want by far the best Leica film camera find yourself a M5 in mint condition it is the finest Leica made Fact! Really! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted April 15, 2016 Share #636 Posted April 15, 2016 Okay here is my new problem. I have just got my scans back from the photo lab and there are quite a few of the scans without any Black and White details according to the Histogram and also according to the image IQ. My initial thought was WTFIGOH, can’t put that down in English but I am sure you can get the jiff of it J These pictures were taken in fantastic daylight conditions, and absolutely should not look like this so my question is; Is there a problem with either my camera or my camera settings (there aren’t any of those) or is it just what to expect from a scanned image………………..not frigging happy. When I look at the histogram there is no black detail and also no white detail………why is that possible?? These pictures should be in your face correctly exposed, I’m starting to get second thoughts on this film lark, why is it that one minute a picture blows you away and the next they look like shite. I’m trying hard to fall in love with shooting film but can’t handle all these disappointments for no reason at all. I guess I will find out for myself when I look at the negatives when I get home. Not a happy camper. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258574-leica-film-odyssey-for-a-beginner/?do=findComment&comment=3027098'>More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted April 15, 2016 Share #637 Posted April 15, 2016 another one Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258574-leica-film-odyssey-for-a-beginner/?do=findComment&comment=3027100'>More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted April 15, 2016 Share #638 Posted April 15, 2016 last one Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258574-leica-film-odyssey-for-a-beginner/?do=findComment&comment=3027102'>More sharing options...
rpavich Posted April 15, 2016 Share #639 Posted April 15, 2016 The negatives themselves tell the story...not scans. Take a nice macro of a negative on a light table or similar backlit source and post it. But...beyond figuring out why they are like that, I'd not be upset at having a bunched up histogram...that's the nature of turning something physical into digital... Just move the white and black points where they need to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted April 15, 2016 Share #640 Posted April 15, 2016 The negatives themselves tell the story...not scans. Take a nice macro of a negative on a light table or similar backlit source and post it. But...beyond figuring out why they are like that, I'd not be upset at having a bunched up histogram...that's the nature of turning something physical into digital... Just move the white and black points where they need to be. Unfortunately I am offshore so I don't have the negatives or the facility to photograph anything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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