Is the M8 the Right Choice for me? [Or: Am I right for the M8? :) ]

[jayproth]

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Not only was the M8 my first Leica M, it was my first personal camera!

 

I got hooked on photography on my sibling's D70 & D200 but never bought one myself because of the bulk and weight of a DSLR, accessories, lenses and manual until Leica introduced the M8 and was drawn by its simplistic design and almost complete lack of automation to get in the way of the picture taking process.

 

Focusing on a rangefinder is easy to learn. Eventually, you'll get so used to it that SLR focusing will seem inexact. As far as frame lines go, you'll learn to compensate for that too.

 

The biggest adjustment I had to make was with parallax error. This might be an issue for you specifically if you intend to take close-up shots of architectural details, especially in focal lengths greater than 50mm. This will also be a problem when photographing sports events. Its POSSIBLE, but not worth the trouble if you already have an SLR. Check out this thread for more info. ->http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/sports-leisure-time/18541-basketball-noctilux.html

 

The M8 excels at your last requirement though, shooting people, especially in low light. You can still attain sharp images at shutter speeds down to 1/30th since there's no mirror that flips about. And its small. I found my photography has improved simply because I get to shoot more often as I get to carry the M8 everywhere. This is a great plus since you apparently travel often.

 

One thing you'll need to accept though is that the M8 DOES have alot of kinks to work out and you WILL have to spend time on this forum to figure out and correct issues like the backfocusing, etc. As you might have already learned from the forum, do not expect a bulletproof, issue-free system.

 

As far as durability goes, I live in the Philippines, drive a Land Rover Defender and rack up 350-400km of travel time a week and I take the M8 everywhere. So wet-weather and shock durability is not a problem.

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[burbank@ntnation.com]

In case anyone was wondering, this is where I ended up:

 

After all the thoughtful and complete responses on the forum, it seemed like it was time to take the next step and contact a dealer and actually look at the M8 in real life.

 

So I visited Photo Village in NYC, and spent about 20 minutes looking at, holding, and taking a few test shots with an M8.

 

Boy, it was tempting to take out my credit card after that

 

My impressions (as a total Leica M novice):

 

* amazed at the size of the camera, compared even to my Nikon D70, never mind my D200.

 

* the weight and feel of the camera were incredible... it "fits" so nicely

 

* the rangefinder focusing: at first, I was really awkward holding it. But then, it just clicked, and I started moving that ring around and looking at the bright box and you know what? RF focusing is EASY.... I'm sure I'd need a few weeks of shooting to really get used to it, but it's not in any way daunting at all, and frankly, even with just a few minutes exposure to it, it seems to me that RF focusing is actually easier than manual focusing on any DSLR I've ever tried.

 

* seeing the area outside the frame in the viewfinder is great.... I love that!

 

* the viewfinder image seemed really nice, although frankly after all the descriptions of the image, I somehow expected it to be "brighter", but that's just my impression.

 

Overall, it was a very positive experience. If I had just a tad less sense, I would have slid my plastic across that counter, and the fact that I didn't might have less to with my sense and more to do with the price tag

 

My next step is I'm going to rent an M8 for a week while on vacation at the beach and just shoot shoot shoot. If that goes ok, I am definitely buying one, no doubt about it in my mind at this point.

 

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions and made additional comments.... I will post here after my one-week test with the camera and let everyone know my experiences. Maybe that will help someone else like me in a similar position in the future who is considering the M8.

[larry]

Burbank,

 

I think you'll find that a rangefinder camera will engage you more in the seeing and shooting process than an SLR. Good luck and have fun with your test! (And don't let any sand get into the rental M8 or that's the one you'll own.)

 

 

Larry

[cme4brain]

I too am on the fence on the m8.. and have a long and pleasant relationship with my d200. however, I have also used my m4-2 and m6 for years. For what it is worth, my m6 has gone in the desert, in the glaciers, and is routinely used in for documenting house fires, motor vehicle accidents etc. in all kinds of adverse ( translate to wet and bumped, smokey, up and down ladders, etc ) conditions- and I have shot my kids pictures for the last 12 years. It has NEVER failed to give me solid useable and sometimes even great images. If you want to get a rf feel, consider buying a used m6 and play for a while.. you can always take it as a back-up. and if you do buy the m8.. let us know what you think.. I'm still pondering.. good luck.

 

I have read the above comments, one is very negative about several things save the stunning images.

 

I would suspect that you would own several digital cameras (as do I) and use each one in its needed application. Rangefinders and the M8 are not for sports or distance photography (poor telephoto framing/focusing); rangefinders were meant for wide angle lenses. Keep your DSLR's for their use; I have a few! I use my M8 for the most stunning images I have ever seen, but when I need to, I take my small Pentax Optio or a Canon 5D, or my Kodak P880 (great 24-140mm lens that bests many Canon "L" lenses, BTW). Buy a Voigtlander lens at first to keep your costs down, they are supurb (visit Sean Reid's website, http://www.reidreview.com I think) and cheap. I have enjoyed my M8 from photograph 1 and will keep it as my favorite camera.

[doug_m]

Burbank,

 

Ask the store you plan to rent the M8 from if they will give you credit for the rental if you end up buying an M8. I think they should consider giving you at least partial credit considering how much you are likely to spend on the camera plus lenses if you end up buying.

 

By the way, if you are only taking one lens as part of the rental take the 50mm f1.4 ASPH.

 

Good luck.

[isaac]

Hello!

This is also addressed to JAYPROTH...

I would suspect that you would own several digital cameras (as do I) and use each one in its needed application. Rangefinders and the M8 are not for sports

Have you ever tried? In my opinion, M8 is better for sports than any of the machine-gun type DLSRs...

or distance photography (poor telephoto framing/focusing); rangefinders were meant for wide angle lenses.

Well, maybe. But if you have experiences with wide angle you can easy learn to use telephoto. Start with 50mm and go to 90mm lens. If you can handle 90mm well, than you can start to use 135mm as some of us here will do.

Be careful, when start to use non-Leica lenses. They will compare almoth equal to Leica, but (with the exception of Zeiss ZM) they are not realy compareable, because their imagination is quite different (though, they are cheaper).

[jayproth]

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Hi Isaac,

 

As a matter of personal preference, I just find it more difficult to shoot sports with the M8 from the nose-bleed section of the bleachers and through a heavy crowd. Being an amateur, I don't get to be up front where the action is and there have been many times that, due to parallax issues, I thought I had a great shot, and ended up with a blurry picture of the back of someone's head. All this while my brother kept snapping away with his ultra-zoom monstrosity of a D200.

 

Of course, things might change dramatically if I had ringside seats to a boxing match. Or if I had the press clearance to stand ringside or court side. I still doubt the ability of the M8 to do a better job than an SLR in covering a large field game like football or rugby though.

[GMB]

Just a few comments from my experience.

 

I am an amateur. For almost 20 years I used Canons. My last was the EOS 50 with zooms and autofocus. I shoot manly family, in particular my wife and kids, travel memories, and things I see when walking around.

 

2 years ago, I went into Tamarkin and walked out with a M7 and 2 lenses (I had toyed with the idea for long time though). I loved the rangefinder concept immediately, spent the rest of the day shooting in NYC until my plan left for home. At home, I became best friend with the lab around the corner as I gave them tons or rolls of film to develop every months. Also, the number of photos of my wife and children went up by a factor of 10. I then bought a few more lenses and another rangefinder (Xpan), mostly second hand. Finally, I got an M8 in March of this year. My Canon staid in the bag all the time; I didn’t use it once since I got the M7.

 

Apart from the pleasure of using a M (which I agree is strictly personal), the great advantage is that the camera is small and discreet, while still offering superb image quality. This certainly is a big advantage when shooting children, because (i) you can take the camera with you on many occasions (if you don’t have a camera with you, you cannot get the shot), and (ii) kids (and adults) feel less intimidated. Also, some of the Leica glass is just outstanding (such as the 75 mm Summilux I picked up on eBay last November).

 

There are two situations where I miss a (D)SLR, both involving the ability to shoot with long glass and auto focus. One is sports (my daughter plays in a soccer team and a 90 mm on a M is just not right for the job) and the other is nature shooting, including macro. So I think of getting a DSLR for these two specific purposes.

 

Other than that, I cannot imagine anymore running around a city, a park, a forest etc. with a big SLR around my neck.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I should add that my brother in law tried out my M8 and just didn’t like it. So is most likely getting a Nikon of Canon DSLR.

[johnwolf]

I mostly photograph three types of things:

 

- architecture (specifically certain types of buildings and architectural detailing -- again, purely for pleasure, not professionally) -- also while on vacation is some fairly rugged and tough places (e.g. parts of Africa, Asia, and South America)

 

- gymnastics and a few other individual sports

 

- people [mostly my kids ]

 

 

Hi Burbank,

 

I'm a relatively new rangerfinder user and also own a 5D system. I can tell you that for architecuture the M8 will be great. But I expect you'll find it frustrating for gymnastics and your kids (or anything fast-moving). Not that it can't be done, but it is definitely much harder and the percentage of successful shots will be lower. This will especially be true of gymanistics shooting with longer lenses. Framing is less precise and accurate focusing is harder.

 

There's nothing quite like that center focus spot, auto focus, and bright viewfinder for moving subjects. Not to mention image stabilization and long lens choices.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my M8. It suits my general style of photography well and the files are amazing. But for two of your three primary subjects, I think you'll prefer your DSLR.

 

John

[jaapv]

I'm a relatively new rangerfinder user and also own a 5D system. I can tell you that for architecuture the M8 will be great. But I expect you'll find it frustrating for gymnastics and your kids (or anything fast-moving). Not that it can't be done, but it is definitely much harder and the percentage of successful shots will be lower. This will especially be true of gymanistics shooting with longer lenses. Framing is less precise and accurate focusing is harder.

 

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/26329-real-men-use-manual-af-birds.html

 

John, I think I have shown - and there are sports shots of kids on that thread as well- that it is relatively easy to do that kind of thing. It helps a lot to see things coming in the viewfinder and that is quite an advantage over an SLR.You get better framing and are able to anticipate the critical moment.

Actually it a great creative element that one positions the plane of focus manually. AF gets confused whether to focus on the ball, the player or the background. Or, in this example, the wing-tip or the eye/beak.

 

My technique:

Prefocus approximately to where the action will be.

As the movement develops do small corrections.

Watch it move into the plane of focus.

Release as the subject is in, or minimally before focus, depending on your reaction speed. There the M8 is brilliant. Its shutter lag -or rather lack thereof- is unmatched.

 

Works at least 50 % of the time. I find it gives better shots and more keepers than autofocus. (for me - not an invitation for a AF-MF flame war. I know others prefer autofocus.I have been perfecting this technique for more than 35 years too - it may help )