Went to the Leica Store today

[Peter Walker]

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I think it's a shame that people discount it after a quick play based purely on the size ...... which for anyone coming from an M is a surprise ...... but if you stick an M lens on it the difference diminishes substantially.

 

 

It's their loss.

[BCMielke]

 

 

I think it's a shame that people discount it after a quick play based purely on the size ...... which for anyone coming from an M is a surprise ...... but if you stick an M lens on it the difference diminishes substantially.

 

There is no zoom lens for the M ....... and if you use an R zoom with an adapter you soon add bulk and weight .... without the benefits of AF. 

 

 

 

 

There really isn't a weight difference when you put an M lens on it.  There is a size difference as the SL is longer, but the weight is non-existent.  

 

The only way you can use a zoom lens is a third party with an adapter on the M.  I have used my Contax many times like this.  Of course then you have to put the Visoflex on the M.  

[steppenw0lf]

Of course the SL is not perfect.

 

For some it is too heavy - after a few days I did not mind anymore. (Actually it is about the same weight as other professional cameras).

For some it is too big - often people add in their mind the 24-90 and mean the combo, but the camera itself is smaller than a Nikon D800 or a Canon 5DS. (I have both).

For some it offers too much - for a mainly R user like me, I would have preferrred a cheaper (and lighter) non-AF version of the SL.

For some it is too complicated - but after setting it up once, now I do not need to dive into the menus anymore, so it is now VERY simple.

For some the design is ugly - that's a matter of taste (you should not quarrel over taste; "Each one lives, each one loves") But are most modern DSLR cameras really beauties ? Not in my eyes, I prefer the SL. (Actually, just for looks, the old R4 is still my favourite).

...

But currently for R lenses it is clearly the best option. Some M users also seem to like it. Everybody agrees about the quality of its EVF. There are also quite some people who like its fast AF and the quality of the (one) SL lens, and with time and more native lenses acceptance will certainly grow.

 

Stephan

 

I forgot one point which is maybe the most important for me when looking back. I am happy to have the possibility to add more or less any lens I would like to try to this camera. Of course this does not count when you are on an assignment. But after the job is done, you have now a really nice sand-pit to test all sorts of combinations of new and old tools. (Our fathers had their "Modell-Eisenbahn" for this - their model railway.)

[BCMielke]

I forgot one point which is maybe the most important for me when looking back. I am happy to have the possibility to add more or less any lens I would like to try to this camera. Of course this does not count when you are on an assignment. But after the job is done, you have now a really nice sand-pit to test all sorts of combinations of new and old tools. (Our fathers had their "Modell-Eisenbahn" for this - their model railway.)

 

You bring up a very good point and one that I have thought at length about, but have not yet added to the thread.  I love adapting lenses.  As a Nikon DSLR user that really limits me because I have to completely change the mount in most cases in order to mount other lenses on the camera.  I have Contax lenses as well as R lenses.  That isn't a problem with the SL.  Put an adapter on and you are ready to go.  

[Guest VVJ]

But currently for R lenses it is clearly the best option. Some M users also seem to like it. Everybody agrees about the quality of its EVF. There are also quite some people who like its fast AF and the quality of the (one) SL lens, and with time and more native lenses acceptance will certainly grow.

 

 

That is a pretty good summary IMO...

 

A lot of people are still sitting on the fence, waiting for more primes to become available or for confirmation that already advertised features have been implemented...

 

My main fear with the Leica SL is that Leica very carefully will try to position this camera between the M and the S, deliberately crippling it a bit (or at least not enabling its full potential) to not cut into the sales of the M and the S...

 

Already owning M, S, T and Q I absolutely have no need for a camera that is complementary to these cameras...  I want one that replaces most of these cameras... 

[jaapv]

I don't quite see how it can replace an M -Rangefinder camera - or a Q - highest quality fixed-lens compact - or an S -medium format SLR - or a T - relatively less expensive carry-everywhere system. I  think you cannot avoid positioning the SL system to be somewhere in the Leica palette, which appears to be between the T and the S.

One thing it will not be: A Swiss Army Knife with a Red Dot.

[Peter H]

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It's their loss.

 

 

This forum...

 

There's a trace of proselytising zeal that accompanies new cameras that some people find off-putting. To the extent that any comment, any review, any discussion can have any influence at all, this can be negative.

 

It can take the shape of being told to ignore things like size and weight, as though they are not personal considerations. 

 

When I first, light-heartedly, rejected the SL as being too large for my purposes I was told by several forum members to get down to a dealer and hold it in my own hands first. 

 

I did so. There are some lovely qualities about it for sure.  But it was bigger and heavier than I expected, and  felt rather uncomfortable and slightly unbalanced  to hold to my eye, even compared with heavier DSLRs.

 

I was then told not to make a judgement based on ten minutes in a shop. So I used one for a day. And yes, it was too cumbersome to allow me to use it in the spontaneous way I would like to. It adversely affected my photography. And guess what? I was told that I'd get used to it after a week, and anyway, I don't have to use the zoom.

 

You have to laugh sometimes.

[BCMielke]

 

I was then told not to make a judgement based on ten minutes in a shop. So I used one for a day. And yes, it was too cumbersome to allow me to use it in the spontaneous way I would like to. It adversely affected my photography. And guess what? I was told that I'd get used to it after a week, and anyway, I don't have to use the zoom.

 

You have to laugh sometimes.

 

What's the old saying?  One man's poison is another man's medicine.  I think it's that way with just about anything.  

 

What changed the most for me after seeing it and handling it?  I never thought it was a beautiful camera from the photos.  When I saw it, I thought it was.  

[Peter H]

What's the old saying? One man's poison is another man's medicine. I think it's that way with just about anything.

 

………

 

.

Yes, that's exactly my point, and to be fair, I think that's how most people here see it.

 

So, I'd like to see someone express their personal opinion about the unweildiness of the camera, from a purely personal point of view, without always being told that they're factually wrong, or in some way deficient of judgement.

 

Yet there's always someone who will. I expect they have our best interests at heart!

[LocalHero1953]

Yes, that's exactly my point, and to be fair, I think that's how most people here see it.

 

So, I'd like to see someone express their personal opinion about the unweildiness of the camera, from a purely personal point of view, without always being told that they're factually wrong, or in some way deficient of judgement.

 

Yet there's always someone who will. I expect they have our best interests at heart!

Peter, I think your comments apply to all here, not just those supporting new cameras and the SL:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/256358-would-you-give-up-your-digital-m-for-a-sl/page-6?do=findComment&comment=2992261

[jrp]

I too found the weight / bulk off-putting initially, but having a camera that I can focus manually off-centre, with M lenses that tend to have a lot of field curvature, means that it is much easier to get the shot that I want than with the M240.  The result is that I take many fewer, more considered, photos, and end up with many more keepers. (The better higher ISO and slightly better dynamic range help too.).  The downside, if it can be called one, is that it does not take me as long to complete some of my regular photo walks. I like having GPS, which requires the grip on the M240, making it easier to handle anyway, but narrowing the weight difference with the SL.

 

The Sony A7 series cameras have a better sensor, for sure, and are certainly lighter / less bulky that the SL, have in-body image stabilisation, etc. The images are, nevertheless, not as pleasing as with the SL.  I don't know quite why. Perhaps the Lightroom profile is not as well tuned. There is also a lot to be said for getting the lens correction applied automatically, rather than having to try to remember which lens you were using for which shot. 

 

I held out on the zoom. But I often carry more M lenses than I end up using, so the weight difference is not great, and the lens performs very pleasingly. Also it is weather sealed, a distinct advantage today.