AF adapter for M & R lenses

[ramarren]

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I'm still a big fan of leica RF MF, the non-replaceable Leica glass quality, compact lenses & M body and the romance of MF (I've started with this hobby for more than 35yrs coming from the 'flim' days), however I find RF MF limited to shooting slow / static and non-tele subjects. The SL is like a bionic extension arm fitted to handle beyond the RF MF comfort zone, I really like the SL as a complement and not a replacement for my M240. Therefore I do not find the SL + AF lens pkg to be bulky as I think about it as having a DSLR comparable mirrorless that gives me the best option to still use my M & R lenses whenever I wish to ( better than on M240 & Sony A7 as the SL was designed with intention to take on Leica M, R & S lenses from the start).

 

Therefore I welcome the idea of an AF adaptor for M & R lenses as an option and not as a need to have.

 

 

(bolded) Can't agree with that. I find Leica RF cameras to be fast and responsive in use, wonderful for capturing fleeting moments and people's expressions. That's what they've always been good at, dating back to the beginning of the line—they never needed AF to do it. 

[hhn360]

Techart, a third party vendor has produced a AF adapter for M lenses to gain AF capability when mounted on Sony A7.

 

Technically, the adapter only needs to add a motor and linear movement mechanism for any manual focus lens to gain AF capability when mounted on a AF camera.

 

Will Leica consider producing such an adapter for M & R lenses for SL application? Else another third party maker will surely produce and sell it.

 

Just imagine a Noctilux (w. AF) + SL.......

 

I re-bought (I had it previously and sold it) the Sony A7RII just so I can use M lenses with this autofocus adapter.  I think it is a genius idea.  I asked the Techart guys but they have no plans to make this adapter for the SL (which I also own). 

 

I love the look of Leica lenses but don't care for manual focus anymore (except if I'm shooting still life in the studio).  Perhaps a few years ago when I just started using the Leica system I enjoyed manual focus but now I find manual focus to be an unwanted chore.  I would prefer to concentrate on composition and especially lighting.  I shoot with a combination of ambient and added light (strobes, speedlight, or a reflector) almost 100% of my photos and rather than playing around with the focusing where I have no comparative advantage in almost all situations compared to a computer algorithm doing it, I would rather focus on how I am lighting what I am photographing, which is where my skills truly matter. 

[steppenw0lf]

At first sight the Techart adapter looks really attractive.

But then I thought about what I would do with it. I do mainly macro and use teles (from 90 to 300).

And probably for this the Techart adapter seems not made. Or did you try this ?

Another point is, that some modern wide-angle lenses have floating elements, and these are probably completely useless with this adapter, correct ? And also my favourite lens the Macro Elmarit-R 100 has floating elements (or another special asymmetrical construction), which is probably useless with the adapter.

 

Thanks for an answer.       Stephan

[DerPixelator]

"Posted 26 January 2016 - 21:29

I prefer manual focus too, but at age (almost) 70 having AF sometimes makes a difference.

 

However, the AF 24-90 for the SL is sitting in a drawer as I prefer the size of the M lenses, and have so far been able to focus quite accurately, especially if I am at an f/stop 2.8 or lower.  Before my EVF conked out (I'm taking the SL to Leica NJ tomorrow) I did some portraits and found the peaking, to my surprise, lit up my subjects' irises like red-eye, making it a fairly easy (easier than I expected) process. 

 

As for an AF adapter, I am not sanguine that Leica will ever produce or disclose enough code to allow a third party to produce an autofocus adapter like that described here.  Obviously the adapter would have to pick up signals from the body via contacts, and then move itself with the lens fixed (at infinity?).  I doubt the Sony circuitry is the same as the Leica circuitry, and I wonder how precise such a gizmo would be.  But I'd like to see someone try."

 

AND

 

"Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:53

I'd like to see how well the AF is actually implemented and how it integrates with the camera focus system. It's not a lot of space (M to Sony or M to SL) in those skinny little adaptors. I would imagine that it'll either need a helicoid (probably slower than manual focus) or an optical group (optical issues/ exposure effects) to provide the AF. Neither sounds like a particularly appealing solution.

 

It's interesting and I wish them well but I can see the dozens of threads about how some poor buggers new SL and Noctilux won't AF fast enough to photograph the grandkids at the football.

 

Gordon"

 

To Alan and Gordon,

 

I had the opportunity to test out the new Techart Leica M to Sony FE adapter. Contrary to many posters, this adapter does indeed work and works very well. Though I tested only with

two lenses (Summarit-M 35 and 90), its autofocus was precise, quiet AND speedy. Is it as speedy as the best autofocus lens with 'ultrasonic' motors, no! But this isn't the point. Without

this adapter, M (or LTM) lenses need manual focus either via the optical rangefinder of M cameras or visually on an electronic screen (EVF). In any case, with my aged eyes, I would

put faith in the ability of this adapter over what my eyes and hand can do. 

 

Leica doesn't need to 'produce' any code for a third party to design and produce such an adapter. Remember, we're 'talking' about an M to Sony adapter, NOT adapters for the SL.

Should Leica decide to produce an autofocus R to SL adapter, they CAN however, they MUST, IMO, solve the problem of HOW to control the auto-diaphragm mechanism. I wrote a

bit about this in my post regarding the R to SL adapter. There is no auto-diaphragm mechanism in an M or LTM lens. All the adapter needs to do 'is to rack' the lens back and forth to

establish focus and this signal is given by the Sony camera's focusing sensor. My assumption is that the Techart adapter used a micro stepper motor and no stepper can be as

speedy as those built into Nikon's AFS or Canon's L or even the SL lenses. That's STILL not the point.

 

With the case of manual focus M and LTM lenses, let me give an analogy - an amputee is just happy and content with artificial legs; they give him mobility, he won't

complaint that it won't allow him to run even a beginner's 10 minute mile run. So, what once was a strictly manual focus lens now has the ability to 'autofocus.' I accept

this as true gift. You shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth for fear of discovering that the horse is older than God, but in the case of the Techart adapter, it IS what it claims

to be and it works as it claims to work BUT if you MUST look into its mouth, what you'll discover is that the adapter, due to weight limitations as to what their tiny motor can 

accomplish, only works with lenses weighing less than 700g. Of course you need light for focusing, whether it be manually or 'by electronics.' I don't care that an

optical RF is accurate, you need time to focus AND if the light level is low, its accuracy goes out the Window. I can autofocus very accurately with my Nikon down to -2EV

using a zoom lens with a maximum aperture of f/2.8. I seriously doubt an optical RF can reproduce accurate focus at this light level. Am I suggesting that the Techart adapter

can autofocus down to -2EV, no, and I haven't seen any specs on how much light is required, but then this is dependent on several factors - 1) available light level,

2) the maximum lens aperture AND 3) what the actual aperture is set to when the shutter releases is half-press to initial the autofocus procedure.

 

Regarding Sony circuitry - the camera body uses its focus sensor to send out signals to the lens (or to the Techart adapter) to either rack the lens out or to pull the lens

in to establish focus. Once focus is attained, the camera tells the lens (or adapter) to stop. Since the Techart adapter NEED phase detection to work, it depends on the

camera for the signal to rack out or rack in AND to stop when the phase detector sensor 'sees' that focus is attained. It's not rocket science, though this may be at one time

when Minolta marketed the first autofocus SLR. It's decades past and what was once technological 'magic,' now it's commonplace. It was surmised at one time that it

would take 100TB to store what a human brain can hold. We now have hard drives that store 8TB. Given these figures, we can conclude that it'll take just under

13 of these drive to be equivalent to what a human brain can store. I will guarantee that with proper programming, you can retrieve anything on those 13 drives in a

fraction of a second and with great clarity. Remember, reverse engineering is commonplace and without it, our economic, technological and scientific progress would still

be in the middle ages or earlier. What we have is reversing engineering and once we find out how something is done, intelligent property rights make us do our 

competitor one better by inventing a new alternative solution and that's how we gain market share and advance our R&D efforts AND knowledge.

 

Yes, the Techart adapter works; it's accurate; it's quiet and faster than I can accomplish manually on an M240's 0.72x viewfinder. That's my long winded two cents.

[ramarren]

I don't see autofocus as an advance. I see it as a convenience. 

[sillbeers15]

Techart replies in mail on M-SL AF adapter development on the way,.......read below:

 

http://leicarumors.com/2016/08/09/techart-pro-leica-m-lens-to-leica-sl-mount-autofocus-adaptor-is-being-developed.aspx/#more-41323

[sillbeers15]

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All I wish for is for my Noctilux to gain AF capability on my SL

[su25]

All I wish for is for my Noctilux to gain AF capability on my SL

For such razor thin plane of focus as that of a Nocti, I am assuming there will be more misses with AF than with MF.  My experience with Fuji mirrorless zoom AF lenses, I ended up getting sharper images with fine tuning focus manually This is only an opinion, I may be wrong 

[Ario Arioldi]

For such razor thin plane of focus as that of a Nocti, I am assuming there will be more misses with AF than with MF.  My experience with Fuji mirrorless zoom AF lenses, I ended up getting sharper images with fine tuning focus manually This is only an opinion, I may be wrong 

Any FLE lens need to be manually prefocused to achieve acceptable sharpness.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

All I wish for is for my Noctilux to gain AF capability on my SL

 

Maybe what you really *need* is the upcoming 50mm Summilux L.  Sure it's a stop of DOF but it's still pretty thin. If it's Otus good then I might be tempted to give up my Noctilux, much as I love the look it gives.

 

Fortunately for me I solved the focus issues with the Noctilux by getting an SL. Currently I don't really need any focus assist either, except for peaking occasionally. I'm sure for some it'll be a godsend but for now I'm quicker with manual focus than some of the lesser AF systems around. And my hit rate is high. To be honest if I were an M shooter who couldn't focus manually for some reason I'd just use the brilliant XPro2 instead.

 

Maybe if we're lucky Leica will introduce a digital EVF variant of the M (in addition to the optical one) that has a digital rangefinder. That's be great for my aging eyes.

 

Gordon

[sillbeers15]

IMHO I am glad the native lenses are zoom lenses, cause I see as convenience and it covers the gaps which my M lenses and camera has on sports and wildlife shots. So after covering 24mm - 280mm on AF, I do not have incentive to get another AF native lens. In AF lenses, there are built-in circuitry and micro motors. Not too sure how long they last. As for MF Noctilux, it can go on forever. So if there is an AF adapter that works, I see it as added bonus, else I'm fine with manual focus as I use it for portrait shots, As for wide angle lenses, AF is seen as more of a hindrance than aid for me to use for landscape shots. Keeping my M21lux as manual focus will remain so.

 

I sincerely hope that the Techart AF adapter is successfully as I belief strongly that it aids Leica SL's success just as the Novoflex Canon to SL adapter opens up more lenses for choice for one to turn to Leica SL although I do not own any Canon lenses. By the success of these adapters or more, I see Leica SL's success as a truly flexible premium mirrorless full frame in the coming. The X1D is no threat as it cannot accept a wide range of lenses due to the larger sensor size. To me, the appeal of the X1D will be a good manual wide angle lens + X1D for landscape photography due to its compact size over the other medium format cameras including the S007. 

[sillbeers15]

For such razor thin plane of focus as that of a Nocti, I am assuming there will be more misses with AF than with MF.  My experience with Fuji mirrorless zoom AF lenses, I ended up getting sharper images with fine tuning focus manually This is only an opinion, I may be wrong 

Watch the video clip of a Noctilux mounted on a Sony A7 wia the Techart AF Adapter that gained AF Capability:

http://leicarumors.com/2016/02/29/more-techart-leica-m-lens-to-sony-e-mount-autofocus-adapter-demo-and-hands-on-videos.aspx/

[su25]

Watch the video clip of a Noctilux mounted on a Sony A7 wia the Techart AF Adapter that gained AF Capability:

http://leicarumors.com/2016/02/29/more-techart-leica-m-lens-to-sony-e-mount-autofocus-adapter-demo-and-hands-on-videos.aspx/

To me it seems like AF is not precise with that green AF confirmation box moving around a bit. 

However, it is a personal preference, nothing against the way it performs or its benefit to others. 

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

Supposedly Techart are working on an M lens-SL AF adapter

 

http://leicarumors.com/2016/08/09/techart-pro-leica-m-lens-to-leica-sl-mount-autofocus-adaptor-is-being-developed.aspx/

[sillbeers15]

To me it seems like AF is not precise with that green AF confirmation box moving around a bit. 

However, it is a personal preference, nothing against the way it performs or its benefit to others. 

That would be the limitation of the AF system of the SL and not the cause of the adapter.

The adapter simply receives signal from camera AF sensor and provides linear motion to focus via micro motor. Just as a built-in AF set up in AF lenses would. 

My cause of concern that is related to the poor performance of the AF adapter would be if the AF is slow and noisy r/and it robs too much of camera battery power.

[sillbeers15]

Supposedly Techart are working on an M lens-SL AF adapter

 

http://leicarumors.com/2016/08/09/techart-pro-leica-m-lens-to-leica-sl-mount-autofocus-adaptor-is-being-developed.aspx/

The Chinese language reply from Techart posted in Leica Rumor clearly showed that they are currently focused in developing the M to SL AF adapter.

With the success of the M to Sony E mount AF adapter by Techart and the availability of the AF Canon to SL adapter by Novoflex, I am confident that the M to SL and he R to SL AF adapter will be made available by Techart soon. Hooray!