pop Posted December 22, 2015 Share #121 Posted December 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) (...) But now that we have real specialists in this original instruments, we learn, that the music is played better on the original instrument. (..) Living in Basel and having attended several concerts by both professors and students of the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis I heartily agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Hi pop, Take a look here What's Special About An M?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
imants Posted December 22, 2015 Share #122 Posted December 22, 2015 You are talking about the endpoint again, not the journey. We all too easily forget..... For most a journey that ends up with pictures posted on the net, hiding in a hard drive or cloud ......................... the smartphone equates to simplicity point ...shoot ...upload ...view ...discuss/learn ...delete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted December 22, 2015 Share #123 Posted December 22, 2015 What's special about an M? Every once in a while it produces some magic image, even if slightly out of focus (thanks to the fantastic OVF ). And while the M is not perfect in many domains, it is usually not the limiting factor when trying to take good images. It's a good tool, you know it when you see it, feel it, use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted December 22, 2015 Share #124 Posted December 22, 2015 What's special about an M? Every once in a while it produces some magic image, even if slightly out of focus (thanks to the fantastic OVF ). And while the M is not perfect in many domains, it is usually not the limiting factor when trying to take good images. It's a good tool, you know it when you see it, feel it, use it. Bold mine.... I am sure someone is taking your camera out, shooting nice pictures and secretly placing it back where you left it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 22, 2015 Share #125 Posted December 22, 2015 In the future we may well be looking at very high resolution sensors providing images which we can adjust for focus, depth of field and exposure in processing - if the image is captured as a burst video, we might even be able to adjust virtue shutter speed of the final image. At that time, there will almost certainly still be people shooting with film and the M will still be alive ... When I did a Photoshop course about 8 years ago, the theacher showed how we could a bokeh in the picture. I felt a little repulsive. Why ad something which you can already put in youreself? At the other hand, if my photo is not in line with the horizon, I put it strait with the lightroombutton, so yes, maybe a little romantic... Still, I try to live to the KISS rule, keep it simple stupid, because it prevents mistakes during the work, that you cannot control. Maybe a Leica M is for control freaks and we call ourselves " purists" . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 22, 2015 Share #126 Posted December 22, 2015 Living in Basel and having attended several concerts by both professors and students of the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis I heartily agree. And the nice thing is, some of them are also Leica M users... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 23, 2015 Share #127 Posted December 23, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) For most a journey that ends up with pictures posted on the net, hiding in a hard drive or cloud ......................... the smartphone equates to simplicity point ...shoot ...upload ...view ...discuss/learn ...delete But not for all of us. My 'best' images are those worthy of being printed which many are. The rest have many other uses. Smartphone photography is fundamentally superficial in that as with any automated systems it discourages exploration of a craft (albeit even a digital one) which ls a loss (IMO anyway). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted December 23, 2015 Share #128 Posted December 23, 2015 Smartphone photography is fundamentally superficial in that as with any automated systems it discourages exploration of a craft (albeit even a digital one) which ls a loss (IMO anyway). Smartphone photography is about communication, social networking, exploring, creating visual dialogues, interaction and encourages one to think .............. a heck of a lot more interesting than a so called ego driven finely crafted worthy image same same but different doi knia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicameter Posted December 23, 2015 Share #129 Posted December 23, 2015 1989 I baught my first M. A M4-P, nearly new. At that time nearly nobody wants a M. Maybe the M was to special.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted December 23, 2015 Share #130 Posted December 23, 2015 Smartphone photography is about communication, social networking, exploring, creating visual dialogues, interaction and encourages one to think .............. a heck of a lot more interesting than a so called ego driven finely crafted worthy image same same but different doi knia. So........why do you own a Leica(assuming you do)? Why are you even on this forum, since every post I have seen is about putting down the M and those that use it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 23, 2015 Share #131 Posted December 23, 2015 Smartphone photography is about communication, social networking, exploring, creating visual dialogues, interaction and encourages one to think .............. a heck of a lot more interesting than a so called ego driven finely crafted worthy image same same but different doi knia. That's utter rubbish Imants and you do know it. Do you really think that everything should be dragged down to a base, often ephemeral and superficial level? I doubt it or you wouldn't post here. I have yet to see anything that is of much other than marginally passing interest from smartphones (and yes I do have two as it happens). As for your encouraging one to think comment, well they do but for the most part not very deeply in my opinion. Perhaps you see other images as irrelevant (I took a photo of a new species to the UK this year plus behavioural shots which had not been seen before - ego driven or curiosity driven? - and of more than passing interest but NOT unfortunately on a smart phone)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted December 23, 2015 Share #132 Posted December 23, 2015 New to the party, my M arrives in a few hours. Thought I'd chime in that I don't seem to fall into any of those groups. For many years, I've greatly admired the images I've seen come from M cameras when in capable hands, but up to this point I've resisted largely due to the hefty entry fee, the percieved or otherwise difficulties of precise framing and manual focusing with an aging pair of eyes and, to a lesser degree, a desire to keep my distance from the kind of folks that comprise the second group mentioned above. What's changed? Nothing really, accept for an unexpected windfall coniciding with a renewed level of curiousity. Perhaps, I'll matriculate to group one eventually, time will tell. But in all honesty I'm no purist, I just want to make the best photographs I'm capable of producing. If the M works in that regard its a win, if not I'll move on, but not without continuing to admire the work of others for whom it does. I highly value simplicity, but in the end its all about the image. My return to a true rangefinder after many, many years is really an educational experiment. We'll see how it works out and whether or not I too find the M to be special. Regardless, I look forward to finally joining the Leica fraternity after all these years. I like to think that I belong to group one, though I have come nowhere near to mastering my craft. I use the M system and the Canon EOS system and usually decide which to bring on a given outing based on what I plan to shoot, or just my mood. There are many things for which the Leica is just not suited for me, such as working with lenses wider than 28mm or longer than 90mm, semi-macro or fast motion. Likewise there are things for which the DSLR doesn't fit, like casual walking, street use or travel where I expect to be on my feet all day. In most things, portraits, low-light, documentary, travel etc., either system will do a great job, and often the choice just comes down to which particular lens I want to use or whether I expect rain (my Canon 6D is weather-sealed, my M-E and M Monochrom are not). I'm still faster with the Canon (unless using my manual focus Zeiss lenses), I have lenses for each that I prefer over equivalents for the other, but there is no mistaking the joy I get from using a traditional manual camera made of metal. In fact, I bought the Nikon Df and really liked it, except I couldn't fit a proper focusing screen for manual focus lenses, which defeated the purpose. If Canon ever was to release an F-1 or even AE-1 style camera, but with the EF lens mount and a focusing screen either suitable for manual focus or changeable for one that is, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Come to think of it, I'd buy a Nikon Df2 if it were so optimized, even with the need to sell off my Canon mount lenses and repurchase them in F mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 23, 2015 Share #133 Posted December 23, 2015 Perhaps, I'll matriculate to group one eventually, time will tell. But in all honesty I'm no purist, I just want to make the best photographs I'm capable of producing. If the M works in that regard its a win, if not I'll move on, Welcom! Please stay for a while and give the camera a few years the chance to get to know it well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 23, 2015 Share #134 Posted December 23, 2015 New to the party, my M arrives in a few hours. Thought I'd chime in that I don't seem to fall into any of those groups. For many years, I've greatly admired the images I've seen come from M cameras when in capable hands, but up to this point I've resisted largely due to the hefty entry fee, the percieved or otherwise difficulties of precise framing and manual focusing with an aging pair of eyes and, to a lesser degree, a desire to keep my distance from the kind of folks that comprise the second group mentioned above. What's changed? Nothing really, accept for an unexpected windfall coniciding with a renewed level of curiousity. Perhaps, I'll matriculate to group one eventually, time will tell. But in all honesty I'm no purist, I just want to make the best photographs I'm capable of producing. If the M works in that regard its a win, if not I'll move on, but not without continuing to admire the work of others for whom it does. I highly value simplicity, but in the end its all about the image. My return to a true rangefinder after many, many years is really an educational experiment. We'll see how it works out and whether or not I too find the M to be special. Regardless, I look forward to finally joining the Leica fraternity after all these years. Missed this post. Welcome! You state you highly value simplicity and that is for sure one of the M's strong points. I believe it will inspire and help you create your best photographs. Keep us posted and let us know what you think of the M. (Many of us believe the FAQ is a must read). Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted December 24, 2015 Share #135 Posted December 24, 2015 Welcom! Please stay for a while and give the camera a few years the chance to get to know it well. Thanks for the welcome everyone! Within the first few minutes of ownership I feel I've already glimpsed why the M stirs a certain level of contraversy. Sadly, its been rather dreary here, so I haven't got much real use yet, just practicing focusing technique mostly, but its already evident that even the throwaway images have a certain art about them. Less clinical, more photographic than any of the other cameras I own. First digital photographs I've taken where my initial inclination is to diminish clarity rather than crisp things up. Lovely. OTOH, the body is a somewhat portly in my smallish hands and some elements such as pulling the base plate to get to the memory card strikes me as overly nostalgic. I'm sure its comforting for those who've spent half a lifetime loading and unloading cans, but personally I find trap doors more convenient. While I might not yet have accepted or grasped the M specialness, the glass is another story. For educational reasons I've limited myself for the next few months to a single lens, the 50mm Summicron. After apprenticing with that we'll see where we wind up. But after only a couple of hours and a few dozen snaps, it is very easy to understand how some folks can become completely obsessed over collecting these little glass jewels. One, at least in my tax bracket with a son entering college next year, doesn't enter into this world lightly. I believe that the more worthwhile the thing, the greater the level of patience and commitment required. There's a learning curve to be sure, but I've already found it, at least initially, to be a gentler slope that I might have anticipated. OTOH, one can easily sit down in front of a Bosendorfer, press a key or two and admire its tone. Mastering its nuances is another matter. So yes, for better of worse, I will indeed be staying for a while. It's already clear that the M system offers something that is worthwhile spending the time and energy to learn more about. Perhaps that is one of the qualities that makes it special. I'm off to check out the FAQ, (thanks for the tip!) but before I go, again thank you all for the welcome. I truly look forward to becoming a positive addition to the community. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 24, 2015 Share #136 Posted December 24, 2015 What is special about the original M? It is not its successors. It is elemental and that from which derivatives sprout, like weeds in a new field of opportunity nourished by bull shit. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 24, 2015 Share #137 Posted December 24, 2015 A little testy today are we Pico? Stop hanging on to the past and evolve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 24, 2015 Share #138 Posted December 24, 2015 Tailwagger, Yes, read the FAQ and you will be ahead of 90% of folks that come here with their new M and don't read it. But, it sometimes becomes a little detailed for someone who just wants the basics, who wants to shoot now and ask questions later. So, a simple few words of advise for someone who sounds like an old soul to photography: In your hand you directly control all of the elements of exposure... aperture and shutter speed. Focus can be placed where you want it manually, with your eye to the RF. Beyond that, there is not much else left, except your creativity. At this point folks here usually challenge you to post a picture in the Photo Forum. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/forum/7-photo-forum/ Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted December 24, 2015 Share #139 Posted December 24, 2015 Tailwagger, Yes, read the FAQ and you will be ahead of 90% of folks that come here with their new M and don't read it. But, it sometimes becomes a little detailed for someone who just wants the basics, who wants to shoot now and ask questions later. So, a simple few words of advise for someone who sounds like an old soul to photography: In your hand you directly control all of the elements of exposure... aperture and shutter speed. Focus can be placed where you want it manually, with your eye to the RF. Beyond that, there is not much else left, except your creativity. At this point folks here usually challenge you to post a picture in the Photo Forum. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/forum/7-photo-forum/ Rick Started looking through the wiki, but at the risk of seeming, err... revealing I'm an idiot, is that what you meant by FAQ or was there a more 240 specific url you had in mind? From a fundamentals POV, outside of the rangefinder aspect, I don't find the M either upsets or dumbs down my mental model of what a camera is supposed to be. It represents something of a mid-point between the two systems I've been shooting with over the past few years, Fuji X and Pentax D/Z. While I find MF with Fuji lenses untenable, the Pentax, given it's always on legs and being severely limited with respect to AF points, had already forced a return to relying heavily on MF. In this respect the M, having a split finder, has made accurate MF a bit easier. As to photographic output, its a bit premature to post more generally. The weather has a been quite uncooperative of late and at approximately the same time the camera arrived so did a stomach virus. But sure, excuses are many and I sense that when it comes to Leica one is presumed guilty of membership in group two until proven innocent. I'm afraid my evidence to the contrary so far is weak, but as proof that my M isn't just sitting on the shelf being admired, here's one taken in the rain from pre-dawn this morning along with the obligatory first snap devoted to the family pet from the first evening of ownership. Apologies if this is OT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 24, 2015 Share #140 Posted December 24, 2015 A little testy today are we Pico? Stop hanging on to the past and evolve. Evolve? I'm dog! We are already more evolved than humans. Now if you 'people' would let us vote... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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