Digilux 3: Should We Expect a Firmware Update?

[lemalk]

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I know it's been brought up before that the L1 owners have the benefit of two firmware updates under their belts, but should we expect the D3 will have new firmware anytime soon?

 

Do you think Leica's moved on to the D4 or do they have at least one more patch to send down?

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[karlitos]

Absolutely we should have a FW update and soon. I fail to see why it cannot be done seeing that Panasonic have produce version 2. I wager that there is little difference between them despite the advertising blurb.

 

If Leica 'do a DMR' with this camera I will burst with anger!

 

Karlitos.

[spylaw4]

IIRC - the release of the D3 was delayed allegedly to incorporate some updated firmware - possibly the equivalent of the L1's V1.1. I gather from some comments made here that some of the L1's V2 features may already be on the D3, which may explain the lack of an update. OTOH maybe Leica are happy with it as it is!

[jdlaing]

I spoke with Leica a few weeks ago and asked about a Firmware update and some other things including lenses.

 

Their answer was the Firmware update was in the works but they had no release date.

 

Lenses are in the works as well.

 

Standard answers bu unlike some other companies......at least I got an answer on the first try.

[dugby]

How about a D3 owner identify if any of these L1 V2.0 firmware features are on a D3

 

<http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/L1K/>

 

1. Added a multiple exposure function.

 

2. Added "panning mode"(MODE3) to the optical image stabilizer.

 

3. Added a "low-angle" viewing mode that makes it easier to view the LCD display when the camera is held below eye level.

 

4. Added feature that simplifies setting the aperture when using a lens without an aperture ring.

 

5. Added two manual white balance settings to GUI. GUI design uses navigational cursor to easily select, and set, white balance (WB) to change the color temperature, or set the ISO sensitivity or flash.

Time restriction for making changes was removed.

 

6. Added "HOLD" option to Auto Review time, enabling continuous viewing.

 

7. Added feature to allow zoomed playback of photos. It's now possible to move back to the preceding images or forward to the next images while the image is still zoomed.

 

8. Added [AUTO] for the ISO sensitivity in the aperture-priority AE mode [A] and shutter speed-priority AE mode .

 

9. Added GUI option to easily check the firmware version.

 

10. Improved the performance of AE(Auto Exposure) and AWB(Auto White Balance).

[spylaw4]

I spoke with Leica a few weeks ago and asked about a Firmware update and some other things including lenses.

 

Their answer was the Firmware update was in the works but they had no release date.

 

Lenses are in the works as well.

 

Standard answers bu unlike some other companies......at least I got an answer on the first try.

 

Interesting that "lenses are in the works". So far, apart from the 14-50 kit lens, we have only had the 25/1.4. The 14-150 is due this year (very soon please!). But AFAIK so far the only other lenses due are from Olympus. Could there be another goodie in the planning? W/A prime maybe? That would be nice!

[karlitos]

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How about a D3 owner identify if any of these L1 V2.0 firmware features are on a D3

 

<http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/L1K/>

 

1. Added a multiple exposure function.

 

2. Added "panning mode"(MODE3) to the optical image stabilizer.

 

3. Added a "low-angle" viewing mode that makes it easier to view the LCD display when the camera is held below eye level.

 

4. Added feature that simplifies setting the aperture when using a lens without an aperture ring.

 

5. Added two manual white balance settings to GUI. GUI design uses navigational cursor to easily select, and set, white balance (WB) to change the color temperature, or set the ISO sensitivity or flash.

Time restriction for making changes was removed.

 

6. Added "HOLD" option to Auto Review time, enabling continuous viewing.

 

7. Added feature to allow zoomed playback of photos. It's now possible to move back to the preceding images or forward to the next images while the image is still zoomed.

 

8. Added [AUTO] for the ISO sensitivity in the aperture-priority AE mode [A] and shutter speed-priority AE mode .

 

9. Added GUI option to easily check the firmware version.

 

10. Improved the performance of AE(Auto Exposure) and AWB(Auto White Balance).

 

None of these features show in either of my D3's. Apart from possibly number 10 but I have nothing to base it on. I only shoot RAW and Capture One nails it every time. I can't comment on it's jpeg performance. How about focus confirmation? was that not a V2.0 upgarde as well?

 

Karlitos

[miami91]

Interesting that "lenses are in the works". So far, apart from the 14-50 kit lens, we have only had the 25/1.4. The 14-150 is due this year (very soon please!). But AFAIK so far the only other lenses due are from Olympus. Could there be another goodie in the planning? W/A prime maybe? That would be nice!

 

Maybe they mean Leica-branded versions of the 25/1.4 and 14-150. The 25/1.4 is clearly being marketed and sold by Panasonic under the Lumix brand, so much like the camera bodies, I would expect Leica to follow on with a version under their own marque.

 

Jeff.

[jdlaing]

The following lenses are planned:

 

14-150 3.5-5.6 OIS

50-150 3.5-5.6 OIS

45 2.0 OIS Macro

 

As to the features listed above:

 

1. I think so.

2. No

3. Yes. Works the same as High Angle.

4. I think so.

5. No

6. No

7. No

8. Yes on AE No on S.

9. No. I suspect the feature will be available once the Firmware is updated and changes from 1.0

10. Yes. I think so.

 

Best I could do.......

[rsolomon]

I dont have a D3, but historically leica has not put out firmware updates to update features - they seem only do FW updates to solve significant image problems.

 

I am an owner of the DMR, and have learned the lesson..... you get what you have bought, enjoy your camera, and if you want new FW features you'll need to wait a long time or the next camera . Personally i beleive this is because there for leica there is no revenue associated with FW updates - only expense

[miami91]

I dont have a D3, but historically leica has not put out firmware updates to update features - they seem only do FW updates to solve significant image problems.

 

I am an owner of the DMR, and have learned the lesson..... you get what you have bought, enjoy your camera, and if you want new FW features you'll need to wait a long time or the next camera . Personally i beleive this is because there for leica there is no revenue associated with FW updates - only expense

 

I'm pretty sure they'll be delivering D3 firmware updates. There's a dedicated section for "software and firmware updates" on the camera homepage --- wouldn't be much point in this unless they intend to use it.

 

I for one would be happy just receiving a firmware update that dealt with problems (no feature enhancements) --- improvements to JPEG quality, AWB, AE, maybe a speed improvement on auto-focus.

 

I don't own a DMR, but my impression is that the problems with firmware updates stem largely from the tepid response of Imacon/Hasselblad. This is not a problem with Panasonic, as they are not only a more significant partner of Leica's, but have already introduced the features/improvements in their own camera. So presumably all that needs to happen is for Leica to provide the L1 firmware with their own tweaks and then release it for the D3.

 

I have a feeling that the delay is due to ongoing M8 issues. The M8 with its myriad problems seems to be siphoning off most of the company's resources at this time.

 

Jeff.

[dist]

Hello,

I'm a mostly satisfied D3 user - and I don't feel a particular urge to update firmware. I don't really feel left out by Leica either, maybe because I haven't missed any of the additional features provided by the L1 update so far. Maybe it's just the novelty of it, or the need "to get even" with L1 cheapskates that makes some D3 users unhappy.

 

Some of them are just too elusive to judge - what, for example, does "multiple exposure" feature mean? As in bracketing? As in "opening the shutter multiple times without advancing the image counter"?

Likewise, "AE and AWB improvements". Who knows whether or not this applies to D3 at all, maybe those "improvements" have already been incorporated into the D3 firmware?

 

The only two minor points that would appeal to me are 6. and 7. However, both are far from "do or die". No reason at all to anxiously scan the Leica website for firmware updates.

Rather than burdening myself with bad karma I'll grab the D3 and capture a few shots

Cheers,

[jdlaing]

(clip)

 

I have a feeling that the delay is due to ongoing M8 issues. The M8 with its myriad problems seems to be siphoning off most of the company's resources at this time.

 

Jeff.

 

What myriad problems do you refer to?

I have gathered by a lot of posts they were corrected and are a thing of the past.

Kudos to Leica for acting on and paying for that as well. If all the other companies did that there would be more happy customers.

[dist]

What myriad problems do you refer to?

I have gathered by a lot of posts they were corrected and are a thing of the past.

Kudos to Leica for acting on and paying for that as well. If all the other companies did that there would be more happy customers.

 

Well I don't know... venetian blinds, thin vertical lines, the odd sudden death every now and then... it's not like all the M8 users here are happy campers (although admittedly some of the problems are probably blown up out of proportion in this forum).

Even so, the mere effort of keeping a multitude of (some minor, some not so minor) complaints at bay will undoubtedly tie up some ressources in such a comparatively small company.

 

Construing some kind of cause-effect chain from this seems a bit far fetched to me, though.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Dieter,

 

Add me to that list - of generally happy and please Digilux 3 owners.

 

My camera do work as advertised and have not shown any problems. As a matter of fact, I like it.

 

Bo

 

My Leica scratch page - random thoughts , pictures and such.

[miami91]

What myriad problems do you refer to?

I have gathered by a lot of posts they were corrected and are a thing of the past.

Kudos to Leica for acting on and paying for that as well. If all the other companies did that there would be more happy customers.

 

The problems are/were truly "myriad" --- I don't need to repeat them when all the threads are stored historically for reference. As to whether most of them have been solved, perhaps the most acute have been, but only recently, and only with monumental effort. And from what I gather from occasional perusal of the M8 sub-forum, there are still plenty of issues that users are pressing the company to work out (very poor AWB, "sudden death", etc.). Add to this that lens codings are apparently taking several weeks/months, filter shipments are taking several weeks/months, getting the "30% off" lenses are taking several weeks/months, I think it's fair to say that Leica as a company is still struggling to emerge from the incredible challenges of the first few months of the M8.

 

Now, as to whether this is the cause of the delay in releasing a D3 firmware update, obviously I'm just speculating. But I wouldn't be surprised. The M8 launch has been an extraordinary challenge to this small company ---- don't take my word for it, read the interview with Steven Lee in the most recent LFI. It's streched their resources beyond the breaking point.

 

As to the need for a firmware update itself, it is hard to know how much we (Leica owners) got that the L1 owners didn't have with the original version of their firmware. I know that in my experience, shooting RAW is pretty important for maximum image quality --- the JPEGs just don't cut it. So I'm intrigued by L1 owners reports of how much better JPEGs are with firmware 2.0. But perhaps we wouldn't see similar improvements, who knows? It's hard to do an apples to apples comparison if you don't know whether you're actually dealing with apples!

 

Jeff.

[dugby]

""As to the need for a firmware update itself, it is hard to know how much we (Leica owners) got that the L1 owners didn't have with the original version of their firmware. I know that in my experience, shooting RAW is pretty important for maximum image quality --- the JPEGs just don't cut it. So I'm intrigued by L1 owners reports of how much better JPEGs roved jpegs......was so welcomed, I don't need to do this for my 6x4's......... I will still manually process a RAW for an enlargement (ie 8x10 and beyond).""

 

 

As a current D2 owner...I was always intrigued that the LC1 had a couple extra features that the D2 did not. (ie Auto ISO switch between 100-200. and the second was........I forget).......not that I wanted them on my D2.

 

But now with having both an L1 and D2...... is interesting. The newer V2.0 feature are tangibly better.

 

 

 

1. Multiple exposures....is exactly what we used to do in the old film days....... take a photo, and then trick the camera in re-cocking the shutter, without advancing the film. You can do this many times.

 

2. Mode 3 OIS....absolutely required for doing Panoramic shots and then photo-stitching them

 

3. The LOW angle shooting (shooting a pet dog from the ground) does the exact opposite to the HIGH, angle shooting (shooting over crowds of people). The D3 does not have this.

 

4. Aperature control for non-leica lenses with no Aperature ring

 

5. The extra White Balance control, is vital for the D3/L1. As you know by know the D3/L1 is extra-sensitive to WB, and so often needs to be manually controlled. This is actually much better than having continuous AUTO-WB, which miscalculates WB.

 

6. Hold on Auto review now makes this useful when out in the field and on the move. Gives you better instantaneous reviewing control.

 

7. Continuous zoomed playback is also welcomed..... those D3/L1 users who've discovered how good OIS Mode-2 is...... are shooting 0.5 to 1 sec hand held, but need to check for the occasionally hand-shake blurr. At 05 to 1 second I can get many good stills....but sometime I mess it up and need to re-shoot.

 

8. Auto ISO...... on a L1 this is actually very usable, ISO 200 are 99.9% as usefull as ISO100 (with the exclusion of non-flash night shots....where there is a little noise in the shadows when using ISO200).

 

9. no real value.

 

10. maybe this is why the in-camera JPEGs are now so much better than FW 1.1

 

 

The V2.0 FW now makes the L1 fabulous over the D2 (not with-standing all my previous comments about the D2 no-noise shutter, slow RAW, light-weight 705g versus 1100g)

 

Now to be controversial: The irony is that an L1 is actually better than a D3......This may well have been another concession that Leica had to make with it's manufacturing partner (as it did with the D2 / LC1).

(just like a VW manufactured Bentley Continental Flying Spur is so much better than a Bentley made Continental,

or a Ford made Jaguar XJ so much better than Jaguar made XJ)

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I know Leica products are great and have bought 8x Leica items lately.....but sometimes you can "see the woods for the trees"

[ron110n]

As I recall durring the D2 / LC1 years.

Both camera's has it's own respective signature.

 

The D2 which I own is contrasty as to an LC1 is satin.

 

Now that I betrayed leica by purchasing an L1 which means I defected to Panasonic perhaps twice.

I noticed that the signature reversed for the L1 and D3 models.

Both camera for business ethics reasons can never have the same signature.

Perhaps Leica will soon update the D3 FW "only" for functionality reasons.

But for the image to be the same as the L1.

I don't think so.

How do you justify the extra money you paid if the only difference is the silver & black, plus the red dot.

You need at least something unique.

 

My reason for buying an L1.

Although I was in the market to substitute my dead D2 with a D3.

My main purpose the day of my purchase was to buy a sound card at Best Buy and not an L1.

It was Mothers Day weekend, I was shopping around and saw the camera stand.

I looked at the L1 and saw the price dropped from $1999 to $1499.

I asked the sales person if the store has it in stock.

The guy said yes and today only it's $1439.

I asked do the store sell insurance coverage and what does it cover.

He said 4 yrs, lens and body including accidental damage.

I asked if it occured what are my options.

He said repair, replace if dicontinued, upgrade to any brand and pay the difference from the original cost.

I asked, any 0% apr promotion?

The guy said 18 months 0% apr on a Best Buy card.

I said, I didn't bring my Best Buy card.

He said, I can ring you through your Social Security Number.

I said... "deal".

 

My first L1 impression.

I was a little disapointed.

To my taste, my D2 can capture better image only the L1 has more resolution.

The jpeg quality is below par to the D2 only the L1 has less noise.

Mind you... I never shoot raw with my D2 or perhaps I find it too slow.

It is way toooooooooooooo big and bulky since I mostly shoot Leica M and I never had a DSLR before.

I reached to a point that I want to return it and get my money back.

Then... I upgraded to Ver 2.0

 

Then.... oooh la la.

 

-Ron

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[karlitos]

[quote name=dugby;270057

Now to be controversial: The irony is that an L1 is actually better than a D3......This may well have been another concession that Leica had to make with it's manufacturing partner (as it did with the D2 / LC1).

(just like a VW manufactured Bentley Continental Flying Spur is so much better than a Bentley made Continental' date='

or a Ford made Jaguar XJ so much better than Jaguar made XJ)

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I know Leica products are great and have bought 8x Leica items lately.....but sometimes you can "see the woods for the trees"[/quote]

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly. I'm no SW/FW expert by any means but I cannot beleive that it would be that difficult to adapt Panasonics FW for D3 use.

 

Karlitos

[DonQuijote]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have the Digilux-3 (and a D-Lux2) and have just installed firmware 2.0 on the D3. The upgrade comes with two pdf files(installation instruction and a features doc) and an aplication that extract into a bin file (c:\temp). Upgrade was smooth and appeared successful (new firmware version is 2.0 & camera works), but I have not tested any of the new features yet (like OIS panning mode). Make sure you follow the instructions. I used an SD card reader instead of the cable to computer connection. I received notification of the upgrade with URL etc via the Leica newsletter. Make sure that after downloading the file size matches the described size (I had no problems but know that it can be depending on the quality of your connection). What I found interesting is that there appears to be firmware for the lens and firmware for the body (you notice that when you check the current version - play button then func 2 & down arrow button at the same time). This upgrade updated the body's firmware version. As to L1 versus D3 - you pay for the diff in warranty, better software, bigger SD card, plus I like the look,and I believe there is a difference in colour representation that is Leica specific. I agree though that the L1 looks smaller (black colour) and is less conspicuous. The D3 is heaps better than the those other plastic cameras from a tactile usage point (aperature ring, quality of dials, solid feel). Size and weight were only initially noticed not any more - the D3 is a pleasure to handle. I shoot more than ever before, I had Canon plastic computer before which went into the bin. Rather than being controversial L1 versus D3 we should look at them as one camera.

 

Good luck, Mike;)