Matlock Posted December 11, 2015 Share #41 Â Posted December 11, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had a M6 TTL Millenium with 0.58x finder but sold it some time ago as I didn't like the black lacquer finish (oh well, we all make mistakes}. At the time I had trouble getting rid of it, but I fancy I would have no trouble now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 11, 2015 Posted December 11, 2015 Hi Matlock, Take a look here MP - just for posers?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Fotoklaus Posted December 11, 2015 Share #42 Â Posted December 11, 2015 A black paint M4 costs 3000+, because it is a seldom collectors item. A black paint MP or a chrome one costs 3000+ because it's a (fairly) new camera made in germany (with high production costs) today. A black paint original MP of the 50s costs even more because it's more seldom than a black paint M4. Don't misunderstand me: They are beautiful cameras, but don't mix todays productions costs with collectors prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mijo Posted December 11, 2015 Share #43  Posted December 11, 2015 I owned 2 M6s at one time, a chrome classic and a black TTL. Started with the black TTL and picked up the chrome classic as a back up after having to send the TTL to Leica NJ for repairs twice in the same year, for stuck frame selector and jammed curtain. Eventually traded in the M6s for a BP MP which I'm still currently enjoying.  The only reason I traded in the M6s was the flare issue, which I experienced enough times to bother me. One of things about that MP that I don't like is the direction of the shutter speed dial, particularly b/c I also use a digital M body as well as the MP. I noticed recently that battery consumption with the MP is less than my M6s. With the M6s I had to change the batteries at least twice a year but with the MP it will last slightly more than a year. In comparing the number of contact sheets I've generated with the MP vs the M6s, it's clear that the MP has taken more shots in a year as well (though batteries are cheap so that's not a complaint really, more of an observation).  What I should have done to save some $, is have the VF upgraded when I sent the TTL in for repairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted December 11, 2015 Share #44 Â Posted December 11, 2015 There is a original 50s MP in chrome going for around $74,000.00 on flea bay. How much more if it was black paint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted December 11, 2015 Share #45 Â Posted December 11, 2015 There is a original 50s MP in chrome going for around $74,000.00 on flea bay. How much more if it was black paint? At least 100,000$ more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted December 11, 2015 Share #46 Â Posted December 11, 2015 A black paint M4 costs 3000+, because it is a seldom collectors item. A black paint MP or a chrome one costs 3000+ because it's a (fairly) new camera made in germany (with high production costs) today. A black paint original MP of the 50s costs even more because it's more seldom than a black paint M4. Don't misunderstand me: They are beautiful cameras, but don't mix todays productions costs with collectors prices. Ok so by going with your logic, why is a MP 2x more expensive then M6? And let's be clear: there's nothing collector about BP M4 unless it's MINT, therefore 5000$ and not 3000$. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted December 11, 2015 Share #47 Â Posted December 11, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Because an M6 was built perhaps around 1990 and has a regular price for a used camera with that age and a MP was probably built 2010 and has not lost so much in a few years. Perhaps a MP costs the same as an M6 in 20 Years? I don't know. An M6J is perhaps more expensive than a MP, or an olive M3 (appeal of green colour...) Why is a 10 yeras old BMW 325 cheaper than a 2 years old, and a 50 Years old 3.0 CSL more expensive than the new one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 11, 2015 Share #48 Â Posted December 11, 2015 Black lacquer returned as a finish for the M bodies with producton of the M6 TTL Millenium bodies. Â Â I thought it was enamel. Silly me. Â So, why doesn't Leica offer a polished brass top and bottom? Oh, and tout its Antimicrobial qualities! Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted December 11, 2015 Share #49 Â Posted December 11, 2015 "Black Lacquer" was listed on the repair order when I sent it to Leica. Â That's how I found out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted December 11, 2015 Share #50 Â Posted December 11, 2015 But why is a 50 year old black paint M4 as expensive as a MP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 11, 2015 Share #51 Â Posted December 11, 2015 But why is a 50 year old black paint M4 as expensive as a MP? Is it? Really? Well, in my experience the M4 is a very well built, dependable camera. Comparing my own experience with them vs new MPs makes my point. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the M4 was the last to have hand fitted internals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted December 11, 2015 Share #52 Â Posted December 11, 2015 True, Pico. It was the last. On the other hand, the move to machined, steel gears allowed for a rapid film winder and perhaps the sense it is less likely to need adjustments going forward. I always felt something special with my M4, craftsmanship. All in my head, takes the picture as anything else with a Leica lens attached including a Bessa or Cosina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted December 11, 2015 Share #53 Â Posted December 11, 2015 But why is a 50 year old black paint M4 as expensive as a MP? Because it isn't. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted December 11, 2015 Share #54 Â Posted December 11, 2015 But why is a 50 year old black paint M4 as expensive as a MP? Supply and demand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted December 11, 2015 Share #55 Â Posted December 11, 2015 But why is a 50 year old black paint M4 as expensive as a MP? In a lot of cases a black paint M4 will be quite a lot more expensive than a MP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2015 Share #56 Â Posted December 11, 2015 Supply and demand? Of gullible buyers in different places? Geographically and also on different fora. Â Actually the M2-7 + the lens subforums could be split in black paint and light chrome. There's a very knowledgeable and nice one, who has less than 2% black cameras or lenses in his collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted December 11, 2015 Share #57 Â Posted December 11, 2015 The story is at one point Leica was prepared to discontinue rangefinder camera production after a less than warm welcome for the M5 and strong SLR sales from other manufactures. Â The M4-2 kept the M camera in production and development continued towards the M6. Â When the M6 was introduced sales of rangefinder cameras raised from moribund to having enough of a pulse to continue. Â Nearly thirty years after the introduction of the M6, sales were strong enough to bring on the introduction of the MP and a return to the classic controls Leica moved away from with the M6 TTL. Â The M6 was the second best selling M camera, just behind the M3 for production numbers. Â This showed there was a continuing, if small, demand for rangefinder cameras keeping the line alive. Â Like-warm welcome or not, I love the M5, and consider it the best M body ever made. Â Mine is a beautiful 2 lug in black chrome, overhauled by Sherry last year and calibrated to modern batteries. Â The true spot meter, shutter speeds visible in the viewfinders, match needle instead of diode metering and finally the shutter speed dial that overhangs the front make for a very significant upgrade over everything that came before, and since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted December 11, 2015 Share #58 Â Posted December 11, 2015 Is it? Really? Well, in my experience the M4 is a very well built, dependable camera. Comparing my own experience with them vs new MPs makes my point. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the M4 was the last to have hand fitted internals. Â Consider yourself corrected. Â That would be the M5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2015 Share #59  Posted December 11, 2015 Denial might be a problem  Took me how many years to accept GAS?  I was lucky to find a perfect M6J top plate and got it, because my M6TTL (which has the time wheel turning the digital way ) I bought years ago with bubbles on the zinc plate as a real bargain, deemed to be unaesthetic. But if I'll have exchanged it won't be a black camera. Problems!  How many more years to get used to the new word: poser?  One thing I know for sure: never any fancy leather replacements nor straps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 11, 2015 Share #60  Posted December 11, 2015 Consider yourself corrected.  That would be the M5.  You are right! I think it is time for me to try one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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