IkarusJohn Posted December 1, 2015 Share #21 Posted December 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Stef, I hope this post doesn't completely throw you off. You have the Q, which is an excellent camera - there is no point, to my mind, adding a 35mm lens to that. The logical addition is something wider and something longer. The obvious candidates for longer are the 50 Summilux ASPH, or the 75 Summilux (no longer made, but a classic Leica lens, sadly going up in price); and for wider, the 21 SEM would appear to be a good choice. If you're using a 21, then an EVF is a useful addition Okay, so far so good. I love my M cameras, so please take this suggestion in this context. It is now over 3 years since the M(240) was released and it will be replaced at some point in the next few months (perhaps Photokina in September 2016?). At that time, the rather poor Olympus EVF-2 (rebadged by Leica as Visoflex) will be upgraded to at least the same quality EVF as in the SL, and there will surely be other improvements in the M. The thing about M cameras is that the value you acquire is in the M lenses. The cameras will continue to operate once a new model is released, but the developments in digital over the last 9 years have meant that the technological leaps from the M8 to the M9 and M(240) have been significant. My expectation is that the next M will also be a reasonably significant leap in functionality (not in MP, but a faster processor, better sensor, better EVF, better video etc). In terms of image quality, it probably won't be a quantum leap, but overall it will be a significantly better camera, I suspect. As you like bird photography, I have an alternative suggestion for you - get an SL, with an M->L adapter. The SL is the same price as the M-P(240), with the latest EVF and sensor, & Maestro II processor. You can still use the 50 Summilux and 21 SEM, with the advantage of adding telephotos to your kit in the future, if you decide to sell off your Canon gear. Read the reviews (Sean Reid, at Reid Reviews, Jono Slack at GetDPI and, if you can stand it, Steve Huff's rather breathless reviews over at stevehuffphoto.com) - all reach the same conclusion that this is a fantastic camera. Just a thought ... Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here Advices for constituting an M lenses kit. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted December 1, 2015 Share #22 Posted December 1, 2015 All true, but the OP said he decided to enter the M system. Which means to me that he made a deliberate choice for rangefinder focusing. The value of your post lies in the remark that a new M is imminent. The point you mention may (or may not ) be part of the new package, but you don't mention that there have been speculations on a major improvement on the rangefinder itself. The posts about the magnifier suggest that the OP is not quite confident about rangefinder focusing as such. I think the OP might be wise to buy a used M9 now with the idea of either selling that body at a slight loss or keeping it as a backup, should he like the upcoming M. Or, come to think of it, an M262. That should hold its value as the new M comes out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 1, 2015 Share #23 Posted December 1, 2015 Let me throw in my two cents. I purchased a Safari kit: MP-240 plus summicron 35 ASPH. It is a about $1000 cheaper than purchased separately. The camera is a regular M-P, just green, which I like. The 35 is excellent intro to the M system. The DOF is just right to learn zone focusing and use of manual focus in general, also the 35mm range is just right for me me to learn to frame properly with a prime (I was spoiled by zoom lens). Unless you are really keen on 50mm, which will be harder to focus, then you might want to consider such a combo. In addition to the 35, I have a 75 summicron and a 15mm VIII. One day, I hope to expand to a 24mm summilux and a 180 APO... I am astigmatic and far sighted. The rangefinder as is works perfectly for me in the 35 -75 range, with glasses or without. I would hold off purchasing any magnifiers and additional lens correction until you play with the camera and see if you need them. At some point you might consider the EVF (I would get an Olympus one) if you are going beyond 75-90mm, or use wide angle below 28mm. Whatever you purchase, the M is a great system. I took the plunge just recently and never looked back. The camera is a joy to use. It has its limitations, but they are of a kind that challenge to play with it even more. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2015 Share #24 Posted December 1, 2015 Hi Stef, I hope this post doesn't completely throw you off. You have the Q, which is an excellent camera - there is no point, to my mind, adding a 35mm lens to that. The logical addition is something wider and something longer. The obvious candidates for longer are the 50 Summilux ASPH, or the 75 Summilux (no longer made, but a classic Leica lens, sadly going up in price); and for wider, the 21 SEM would appear to be a good choice. If you're using a 21, then an EVF is a useful addition Okay, so far so good. I love my M cameras, so please take this suggestion in this context. It is now over 3 years since the M(240) was released and it will be replaced at some point in the next few months (perhaps Photokina in September 2016?). At that time, the rather poor Olympus EVF-2 (rebadged by Leica as Visoflex) will be upgraded to at least the same quality EVF as in the SL, and there will surely be other improvements in the M. The thing about M cameras is that the value you acquire is in the M lenses. The cameras will continue to operate once a new model is released, but the developments in digital over the last 9 years have meant that the technological leaps from the M8 to the M9 and M(240) have been significant. My expectation is that the next M will also be a reasonably significant leap in functionality (not in MP, but a faster processor, better sensor, better EVF, better video etc). In terms of image quality, it probably won't be a quantum leap, but overall it will be a significantly better camera, I suspect. Did you consider an 18mm lens, either ther Leica or the Zeiss version instead of the 21mm? I'm asking because the 28mm in your Q and 21mm are not so far apart. Also the 16-21mm might be interesting, since you mentioned the 16-35 Canon zoom. You can't go wrong with any of the 50mm lenses mentioned here and there is no shortage of excellent copies in the second hand market. Yaap's right: forget about any magnifiers for this focal length. It is also the one to find out if the rangefinder system is what you want. I'd get a second-hand M camera body for the next 12 months at the most Cordialement, Simon PS: Before spending more time on the phone and on the internet, contemplating theories and prices, I'd arrange for a 50mm and a body for all of next week-end. As it been said before: Q and M are different beasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 1, 2015 Share #25 Posted December 1, 2015 I can vouch for the Super Elmar 18, it has a fixed place in my bag. (together with Summilux 24 and Summicron 35 asph). The long end is taken care of by an ancient Olympus Zuiko 75-150. As the OP has 28 and 35 taken care of in the Q, yours is a good suggestion IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted December 1, 2015 Share #26 Posted December 1, 2015 Take some time to get used to the MF of the M. Its a shock at first after AF but its now my preference over any focus technique, including AF. An ancient, and rather naïve,take of mine on being an M newbie: http://photon-priority.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/newbie-and-leica-m9-or-emotional.html http://photon-priority.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/leica-m9-six-months-on.html All the lenses you mention are really excellent, especially the 21mm f3.4 The one reticence I would mention is that I find 24-75mm the most enjoyable range with the M. Not that other lenses are not great but more with the system at its peak. Therefore my AF option is more for when I want AF, rather then when I want a particular focal length, as I enjoy the M focus system above all others. I agree with jaapv, I wouldn't bother with any magnifier. I find the M fine to 90mm, noting that I have never used a 135mm to date. The one thing you didn't mention was the type of M, i.e. 240 or M-E/M9. The 240 will give you better ISO performance (caveat *) , usage of longer and shorter lenses with more ease and a few other tweaks. The M-E/M9 has a distinctly more kodachrome look, which some love, and a more "back to basics" feel, not to mention the price advantage. As for the SL as mentioned above, it has an entirely different feel and purpose to the M IMHO. Its much more like using your DSLR so think of it in that context. Its also more of a professional event tool then a travel camera , again IMHO. I would have both if I had the money The M is quite unique and one either loves it or doesn't get on with it. Most people appear to be in the former category, particularly for those that like control over their photography. Best of luck on this life changing and bankrupting journey .... * ref: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208876-m9-colors-at-night-%E2%80%94-best-way-to-shoot-high-iso/ http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3550226 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 1, 2015 Share #27 Posted December 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... the OP said he decided to enter the M system ... That's true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohns Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share #28 Posted December 1, 2015 Indeed... I don't know what means "OP", but I clearly - and on purpose after evaluating the SL with M lenses - decided to "enter into the M system". The suggestion about the SL is valid, for sure. But it might not be the same "experience" than using a purely manual camera such as an M. And it is probably too close to what I currently use. I know I will most certainly face problems in focusing accurately at the beginning. It is also why - in addition to the fact that I like wide angle photo for landscapes - I chose a moderately opened wide-angle lens like the SE21 : I assume that playing with the hyperfocal and the zone focusing techniques, and thanks to the long DOF, it should be quite an easy lens to start with a rangefinder. Only composition is challenging with those angles, but I am already used to it with my current Canon gear (16-35L). I will certainly not be to ambitious with the Summilux at the beginning, i.e. not rushing into wide-open f1.4 photos and rather targeting some moderate diaphragms like f4 or f5.6 to get familiar with rangefinder focusing. Regarding the speculations about the "new M to come with all the exceptional features of the SL EVF + the optical rangefinder", let's say that I am not thinking about an M to use an EVF, as good as the last generation EVFs from Leica could be. Moreover, I was even not thinking initially about buying the Leica VF2. I am now finalizing a deal to buy a used Olympus EVF-2 at a good price. I am really thinking about improving my technique by radically changing the philosophy of my photography, except for the wildlife for which I will keep my Canon gear. Maybe is it the expression of my midlife crisis Regards, Stef. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohns Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share #29 Posted December 1, 2015 Last news, by the way. I am finalizing a deal for a used Olympus VF-2 (80€), another one for a used SE21 of 2013 (1900€). I am continuing discussions for a used Summilux 50 ASPH of 2011 (2400€) just checked by Leica before resell, with a 6 months waranty, at the same Leica boutique where I might buy the body new (M-P). so, as you can see, I considered your advices. Just remember I was not willing to buy used stuff Things are moving faster than I was initially planning. Regards, Stef. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted December 1, 2015 Share #30 Posted December 1, 2015 Stef, "OP" stands for Original Poster ... in other words, you. The Olympus EVF-2 works well. There is no point paying extra for the Leica version which is technically identical. I have long sight and yet I manage to focus accurately most of the time. Using lenses wide open is a rare luxury with the optical rangefinder unless your eyesight is perfect. It doesn't bother me too much. The EVF is adjustable (+ or -), so that makes it very much easier to get perfect focus. An EVF also allows you to use extension tubes for macro photos. Please feel free to post any questions on the forum. Most people here try to be helpful. As with any internet forum there are the occasional growls and snarls. The moderators are good at dealing with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 2, 2015 Share #31 Posted December 2, 2015 Indeed... I don't know what means "OP", but I clearly - and on purpose after evaluating the SL with M lenses - decided to "enter into the M system". The suggestion about the SL is valid, for sure. But it might not be the same "experience" than using a purely manual camera such as an M. And it is probably too close to what I currently use. Stef, you are going to love the M. Really love it ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2015 Share #32 Posted December 2, 2015 Stef, you are going to love the M. Really love it ... Well, we certainly do. And it is great for Leica - and you - to find more rangefinder fans, who start as a happy Q user. Enjoy (and practice )! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted December 2, 2015 Share #33 Posted December 2, 2015 . Using lenses wide open is a rare luxury with the optical rangefinder unless your eyesight is perfect. It doesn't bother me too much. . Nonsense I use lenses wide open all the time My eyesight is not perfect The RF focussing is relative, not absolute Using lenses wide open is one of the joys of the M system Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted December 2, 2015 Share #34 Posted December 2, 2015 With my poor eyes I can't focus on anything which moves. No problem with stationary objects no matter what the aperture is set to (hint: you're not focusing through the aperture...). With water, traffic or pedestrian flows I have to estimate the distance and set it on the lens meter scale. Then the aperture matters, I have to choose one to accommodate my measuring skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted December 2, 2015 Share #35 Posted December 2, 2015 The Q is a wonderful camera. You already have a great 28 and with cropping will get you through the 35 to the 50. I take it you will not sell it. For an M, I would start with the 50 as a first lens. A 50 Cron or Lux would be good. As a second lens try the 21 SEM as it will allow wider shots than the Q which you have. If budget permits down the road, get a 90. There are many lenses in the market like the very good Summarit or late Elmarit-M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohns Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share #36 Posted December 2, 2015 For an M, I would start with the 50 as a first lens. A 50 Cron or Lux would be good. As a second lens try the 21 SEM as it will allow wider shots than the Q which you have. If budget permits down the road, get a 90. There are many lenses in the market like the very good Summarit or late Elmarit-M. Hello Ramesh, I don't know if you read the full thread, but I am buying a 21 SEM and a 50 LUX as my first kit. The Q will cover the 28 and 35 focals. Later, but only after I would have practiced enough the rangefinder focusing with both the 21and the 50, I might get through either a 75 or a 90. But no too fast. Regards, Stef. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohns Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share #37 Posted December 2, 2015 I called several Leica boutique in France today (2 in Paris, the one in Lyon and the one in Metz). I had a very good and constructive discussion with the manager of the Metz's one, indeed very relevant to all the advices I had since yesterday on this forum (get a 50 first, ideally the Summilux ASPH or the Summicron, eventually add the Super-Elmar 21 which is a wonderful landscape and report lens, no 21 mm mirror viewfinder but the EVF-2 instead, and no eye-loop). The other sales persons from the other 3 boutiques I spoke with were more in the mode : "buy everything which is the most expensive (M-P, lux 35, lux 75, the lux 24 is wonderful, etc.), you will not regret it, quality comes at a price, and this is German Quality", like if I was another of these rich men willing to buy some expensive stuff to show it around. I did not like these contacts. But it might have been because I did not speak to the right person (those shops seem to be quite big, which seems not to be the case in Metz). I will anyway try again in Lyon. It would definitely be easier for logistics in case of after sales support, but I would feel being dishonest with the Metz's boutique manager who spent almost an hour with me delivering valid and open advices. Just to keep you informed about this : the "Leica boutique" from Lyon I was referring in the post I quoted above was indeed a Leica reseller, and indeed a big shop from a big franchise, but not a Leica BOUTIQUE. I finally got the contact references of THE Leica boutique in Lyon. I had a very friendly and very constructive contact with its manager, the same kind of talk with a passionate guy I had a day before with the manager of the Leica boutique in Metz. Since logistics are a lot easier for me (1h30 driving instead of 5h by car or a complex train route) I decided to make concrete my project with the Lyon's Leica boutique. I do not want to buy such a camera and "just" receive a parcel. The experience should start by meeting the shop manager and getting verbally first introduction and insights on the M system. I feel a little uncomfortable about the Metz's boutique manager. He showed enthusiasm, passion and patience with me to answer all my questions. It is certainly a good professional and a good shop. I will order him the telephoto lens in a year or so, after I will be more experienced with the rangefinder focusing, and probably some accessories quite fast. regards, Stef. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 2, 2015 Share #38 Posted December 2, 2015 Don't worry, the Metz guy won't be put out, his job is to draw people into the Leica fold. Next time somebody from the Northeast will have his first contact in Lyon. So what kit did you decide on? - oh and stop reading this forum. You may not be familiar with GAS*, but you appear to be infected already, and reading up here will certainly worsen your symptoms. *Gear Acquisition Syndrome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohns Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share #39 Posted December 2, 2015 Don't worry, the Metz guy won't be put out, his job is to draw people into the Leica fold. Next time somebody from the Northeast will have his first contact in Lyon. So what kit did you decide on? - oh and stop reading this forum. You may not be familiar with GAS*, but you appear to be infected already, and reading up here will certainly worsen your symptoms. *Gear Acquisition Syndrome I am not sure I am infected. If I buy another lens earlier than what I wrote before, would it be a GAS sympton, or the confirm of an addiction to the Leica colors and rendering which started with the Q ??? I kept on a new M-P 240, a used SE 21 (2 years old) bought from another forum (sorry...), a used Lux 50 (3 years old, just revised at Wetzlar, with a 6 months waranty) from the Lyon's Leica boutique where I will buy the body, and a used Olympus VF-2. I got a lot of very constructive advices from this forum. I've been really surprised by the number, the quality, and the speed of the answers. Thank you all. I will certainly (mandatorily) keep you informed of my discovery of the rangefinder focusing in other posts. After Christmas. Regards, Stef. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 2, 2015 Share #40 Posted December 2, 2015 Stef, Good idea that you could see the Leica Shop's manager in Lyon, the day you purchase your M-P. With the kit of 21 and 50 is excellent to begin M system along with your Q. May I suggest that you use more 50 Summilux at first, then discover the 21mm later. I wonder if later you would keep the lovely Q . Arnaud Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.