Eoin Posted May 30, 2007 Share #21 Posted May 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) If I was Leica, I'd be waiting with baited breath to see just how big the last minute rush is going to be. A large number of Nocti orders arriving postmarked 30 June might not make their day. I was talking to someone in Leica about my own order and the feeling conveyed by her was it's a very busy time in Leica at the moment but very good feeling to know that so many people want their products. It can't be easy for the employees when you have no inventory and huge demand, I was just asking about my own order which had gone past it's expected delivery date, a further approx 4 week delay is expected then I'll have my own Noctilux. And depending on the character of the lens will dictate what I do. I'm kind of thinking 28 & 50 may be the 2 focal lengths I'll settle on otherwise the current 21 35 & 75 will do. I can't help but feel there will be some very irate/disappointed customers in the pipeline as we get closer to the 30th June deadline. Leica are already quoting a 6 month delivery date for recent Noctilux orders. But hey! the 30% leica offered is already worth 50% on current world prices and could be worth close to 75% by the time you get it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Hi Eoin, Take a look here Not using my 30% coupon. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
carstenw Posted May 30, 2007 Share #22 Posted May 30, 2007 The second-hand prices on the Noctilux seem so far to be holding steady. I see regular sales at around €2000-2500, and almost nothing which is priced higher than that sells. The new price of the Noctilux is one thing, but the amount of money people are willing to give out on the lens is another, and I think the second-hand prices for it will stay low, and new-sales will dry up. That lens really needs a redesign, not least because of its sometimes very odd bokeh. I thought of jumping through some hoops to get one with my 30% deal, but it really doesn't appeal to me enough as a real lens and not just some freak-show lens. If I was going to use it mainly on film I might feel differently. I suspect that with the 75 Lux gone, and the Noctilux being such an odd-ball proposition, that the bulk of the 30% deals will focus around the WATE, 28 Cron and 35/30 Lux lenses, with a few 24s thrown in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 30, 2007 Share #23 Posted May 30, 2007 Mark: What are you using to bait your breath? Cheese or angleworms? (wink! I think that phrase is short for a-bated, as in ceased, paused, "I'm holding my breath to see..."). LOL, certainly garlic on my breath is enough to keep people away... 6 months for a Nocti! Looks like people have woken up to the benefit of the 30% on the old list price compared to the new price. It's a real bargain at that price but I agree it's a quirky lens to use. Not so the 75/1.4 which I'm loving. Tough to guess how many people will buy it at the new list price. It will be interesting to see where Leica goes lens-wise. I do at least hope there's something interesting in the pipe-line and that Leica's lens designers have not been consigned to the Point and Shoot/4/3rds treadmill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted May 30, 2007 Share #24 Posted May 30, 2007 In the latest LFI, Steven K. Lee made several interesting comments with respect to the M lenses. First of all, he comments that as the M8, WATE and 28/2.8A were released, many people questioned that there were only two new lenses. This is significant, and he comments that something must be done about that. There are more lenses on the way. Secondly, he hints that the cost-performance equation will be re-visited. He says that not everyone needs 60% contrast at 40 lppm. He claims that although such lenses impress everyone, few buy them, and claims that such performance levels are not addressing primary customer needs. Excellence is needed, but not these incredibly high and expensive performance levels. There is something to this. At Leica's popularity peak, the lenses were excellent, but not anywhere near the level of the Leica lenses of today, and it is not clear that these levels are needed at all. Leica has in essence painted itself into a corner with incredibly high levels of performance driving the prices up and up. Leica was always expensive, but in earlier times many or most cameras were expensive. This is not the case today, and Leica has not made any changes to accomodate this fact. It is not clear where the discussion leads Leica in the future, and they are currently re-considering their market positioning, as well as their product lineup. I consider it likely that in the future, less emphasis will be placed on the very most expensive segment of the lens lineup (say > €3000), and more on the lower end (perhaps €1500), such as the new 28/2.8A. There will likely be a dual range throughout, with a more expensive, higher performing alternative, as well as a more affordable, lower performing lens, in each focal length. Note that with lower performing I expect, for example, a stop slower, and not poorer sharpness or significantly worse corner performance. I somehow suspect that these days are the glory days, as far as top-performing products are concerned, and that the lens lineup will, with time, be somewhat rationalised, and more sane prices combined with still very good performance will be the order of the day. I don't think that Leica can continue to fight off companies like Voigtländer, who regularly produces lenses with 80-90% of the performance at 10-20% of the cost. Something has to give. As such, I have been trying to pick up some of the very best performing Leica lenses. I think these lenses will most likely represent the pinnacle of optical design for the 35mm segment, perhaps for many decades or longer. As an aside, in answer to another question, he answers that they are considering more M models, other M cameras (the difference between those two is subtle, and I am not sure I understand the implications), and something completely new (which he refuses to elaborate on, and which may not be related to the M system). It does sound like he wants to extend the M camera range somehow. With the MP, M7 and M8, I am not sure what that means. Perhaps an entry-level camera, a new digital CL? This is of course all subject to Leica finding a meaningful way to do all this, but the intent and the planning seem to be in place, and the funding is there. It is a question of decision and execution now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted May 30, 2007 Share #25 Posted May 30, 2007 I personally think we will se lenses coming out in the new 28mm price range around 1500 US . My feeling you will see a 75 2.8 /15 f4 maybe even a 12mm F4 or 5.6 / maybe a new 90mm elmarit and a few more 2.8 lense. i do wish they would come out with one or two high speed lenses to fill in the gap like a 24 F2 and maybe a 18 2.8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted May 30, 2007 Share #26 Posted May 30, 2007 The second-hand prices on the Noctilux seem so far to be holding steady. I see regular sales at around €2000-2500, and almost nothing which is priced higher than that sells. The new price of the Noctilux is one thing, but the amount of money people are willing to give out on the lens is another, and I think the second-hand prices for it will stay low, and new-sales will dry up. That lens really needs a redesign, not least because of its sometimes very odd bokeh. I thought of jumping through some hoops to get one with my 30% deal, but it really doesn't appeal to me enough as a real lens and not just some freak-show lens. If I was going to use it mainly on film I might feel differently. I suspect that with the 75 Lux gone, and the Noctilux being such an odd-ball proposition, that the bulk of the 30% deals will focus around the WATE, 28 Cron and 35/30 Lux lenses, with a few 24s thrown in. Noctilux on eBay at $4000 ..new 6Bit ..Noctilux is the best use of the 30% off coupon if you can wait for the payback Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekwul Posted May 30, 2007 Share #27 Posted May 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Seems to be a shame to let it go to waste.... if anyone has one and would consider selling, I'm definitely interested. Assuming I'd go for a 75 1.4, that's $2579 with the discount, off of a list $3595 - so a discount of $1016..... split 50/50, that'd be $508 for the effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted May 30, 2007 Share #28 Posted May 30, 2007 Assuming I'd go for a 75 1.4, that's $2579 with the discount, off of a list $3595 - so a discount of $1016 Unless you're hell bent on getting a new 75 Summilux, it's about the worst use of the 30% offer. These 75 Summiluxs granted without 6bit coding but mint condition can be found for €1200-€1500 on ebay. Each to their own I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 30, 2007 Share #29 Posted May 30, 2007 Looked at the listings recently Eoin? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekwul Posted May 30, 2007 Share #30 Posted May 30, 2007 hmm. maybe my math is off ? I thought the biggest dollar savings is on the Nocti (that's what I used my coupon for ;-) Second and third are the 2 Tele-Elmars (am I calling these right ? the 16-18-21 and then the 28-35-50), and then the 75 1.4. Personally, I find I take better pictures when I have less choice - I think the easy switching from 16 to 18 to 21 (or 28 to 35 to 50) would degrade my own shots - I'd spend too much time futzing with the camera, and not enough time composing. Also... I don't have a 75. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted May 30, 2007 Share #31 Posted May 30, 2007 Looked at the listings recently Eoin? Yes....... eBay.ie: LEICA SUMMILUX M 1,4/75 mm TOP!!! (item 180120267073 end time 27-May-07 18:57:42 BST) Euro price on the 30% offer is €2307 - €1437 = €870 .... not to be sniffed at. Everything comes to those that wait Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 30, 2007 Share #32 Posted May 30, 2007 Yes, I like the guy who bid a whole €2 for it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted May 30, 2007 Share #33 Posted May 30, 2007 Noctilux on eBay at $4000 ..new 6Bit ..Noctilux is the best use of the 30% off coupon if you can wait for the payback Roger, did it sell? All Noctiluxes I have seen in that price range didn't sell, unless they were from stores offering as-new copies with a warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted May 30, 2007 Share #34 Posted May 30, 2007 Carsten, only 4 hours and 40 min left, price $4151...... you'd better be quick LOL eBay.ie: Leica Leitz Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 lens M8 6-bit as new (item 270122513059 end time 31-May-07 02:33:50 BST) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted May 31, 2007 Share #35 Posted May 31, 2007 Somehow I struggle with the idea of saving 30% on somehting I don't really need. Perhaps its because for years I managed with a very simple kit--21-35-90--on film, and now, it's looking like 21-28-35-75 on the M8, with a 15mm c-v on the way. Now, as Guy discussed, if they had an 18mm....Does anyone know anything more about the Cosina manufacured Zeiss 18mm that's due? On another note, a digital CL would be very interesting. Perfect to have a CL sized camera on which I could permanently mount my v4 35 Summicron. Oh, well.... --Norm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share #36 Posted May 31, 2007 Maybe it was the cheese or the angleworms, but I'm now thinking about one of the little 28's. Anybody care to post a shot or two with it? I have of course read Sean's reviews and seen his analysis. It puts it in the correct perspective, of course (pun intended). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted May 31, 2007 Share #37 Posted May 31, 2007 Roger, did it sell? All Noctiluxes I have seen in that price range didn't sell, unless they were from stores offering as-new copies with a warranty.It sold for the $4151 Bid. The older versions 58mm/60mm with the seperate hoods are going for $3500 plus without 6 Bit coding. So you can estimate that the newer version would be 10% higher and then add the cost of the 6 bit. This one went for a little more . If you need to trade out of your coupon ..the Noctilux provides the greatest spread between cost and fair market value . My view is that this is an "option to buy at a given price" ..a PUT ..it has a value and should not be allowed to expire when you are clearly in the money . But thats just my POV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share #38 Posted May 31, 2007 I think it's a Call option. You may exercise to acquire something the other guy holds. A put allows you to sell something you currently own at a given price. A put is similar to an insurance policy (unless it's medical insurance where the vendor never pays what we all think they should -- c'mon government insurance!). It is, however, an option. Very nice of Leica to do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 1, 2007 Share #39 Posted June 1, 2007 RE: 28 f/2.8 ASPH I only tried one at PMA for a couple of shots. Not a 28 'cron, but better than the lens it would 'replace' for me in terms of field of view and size - the 35 'cron pre-ASPH. Far less coma and astigmatism in the outer areas at f/2.8, "neutral" bokeh (the OOF circles are neither soft-edged nor bright-ring-edged, except at the very edge of the frame). Center resolution is very good but nothing startling, but it maintains that level over most of the (M8) frame even at f/2.8. BTW this was shot with my original M8 before it went to Solms for surgery, thus the ceiling lights were still banding. FW 1.092, ISO 320, no filter. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/25366-not-using-my-30-coupon/?do=findComment&comment=269716'>More sharing options...
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