digitalfx Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share #21 Posted November 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is this for real??? you're joking, right? no, are you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Hi digitalfx, Take a look here Leica is genius. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted November 19, 2015 Share #22 Posted November 19, 2015 I haven't sold anything yet . . . . but I guess I'm going to have to find something (run out of kidneys and grannies). But it won't be anything M (I have an M-P and an MM). Maybe my µ43 kit is finally on the block? I quite agree with you that the M and the SL make a wonderful contribution. I've just got my own SL with the 24-90 - and I'm just as excited as you - even after three different testing periods (nearly 3 months in total) the gloss hasn't worn off - rather to the contrary in fact. Doug and Jaap - you are clearly both DOOOOOOOOMED - you might as well give in immediately and get your cards out. I'm sure that you won't regret it! Let's see what they come up with in the M line. I'm in no hurry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted November 19, 2015 Share #23 Posted November 19, 2015 Let's see what they come up with in the M line. I'm in no hurry. Based on what Leica have managed to put into the SL - which is impressive - one can only look forward to the new M. Although larger and heavier than the MM/M240, the size-weight ratio of the SL is not substantially different from that of the M. And in some respects the handling of the SL is superior to that of the M, particularly for heavy lenses like the 50 Noct. To maintain the two lines of systems healthy and in parallel, without jeopardising the other, I would think that Leica will be very careful not to increase the weight and/or size of the new incarnation of the M. This will please me. The combination of SL (more or less as is) and a simple but efficient and intuitive, high-quality but smallish and low-weight M, the latter with an optical view finder, looks compelling indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted November 19, 2015 Share #24 Posted November 19, 2015 I'm keeping the M240....Why?....Portraits!! It's the only camera that gives continuous viewing while you shoot. All DSLRs or EVF cameras still give you a black-out of the actual picture you shoot. But eye blinks or sleight head movements are always seen with a rangefinder camera. I hear the shutter and see the instant that is recorded. I "KNOW' if I got the pix...not "I think so". I think the M240, 90mm lens, and 1.4 magnifier (one to one image) is still the best portrait set-up for me. But the SL will be a wonderful camera for everything else....especially walking around shooting with the auto-focus, tiny TL lenses. It will be like having an M8 (10mp) with auto-focus. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodluvan Posted November 19, 2015 Share #25 Posted November 19, 2015 im talking about the new M, whatever its called. its name will be Leica M (250). no reason to start with the nonsensical MX type of denominations again (once they actually had a meaning - number of frame-lines) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 19, 2015 Share #26 Posted November 19, 2015 I'm keeping the M240....Why?....Portraits!! It's the only camera that gives continuous viewing while you shoot. All DSLRs or EVF cameras still give you a black-out of the actual picture you shoot. But eye blinks or sleight head movements are always seen with a rangefinder camera. I hear the shutter and see the instant that is recorded. I "KNOW' if I got the pix...not "I think so". I think the M240, 90mm lens, and 1.4 magnifier (one to one image) is still the best portrait set-up for me. But the SL will be a wonderful camera for everything else....especially walking around shooting with the auto-focus, tiny TL lenses. It will be like having an M8 (10mp) with auto-focus. Ciao, Sully The blackout time is less than a blink on the SL ..... if you have auto-review off I think you would hardly notice it ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 19, 2015 Share #27 Posted November 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Now I've tried both blackout and freeze-frame approaches to EVF practice, I prefer the former. I found the frozen image confusing, especially when taking several shots quickly: I wasn't sure if I was looking at LV with little subject movement, a frozen image, or a preview of what I'd actually taken. With blackout you're let in no doubt what's going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted November 19, 2015 Share #28 Posted November 19, 2015 Thighslapper, I agreee, the SL is very quick, but it still blocks the exact time the picture is taken. After many years (40+) of using rangefinder cameras, I am much more confident with the eye/ear coordination of the M camera than any other system. The psychological disruption of vision with all other cameras does not help with knowing that you "have the shot". When I first started using SLRs back in the '60s I noticed that I was shooting many more exposures to be sure that I had the picture I wanted. And that was with expensive film. Now, with "free" digital shots, it is easy to machine gun a portrait sessions. And I admit that using Canon/Nikon DSLRs that is possible. But there is still nothing like the absolute assurance of the rangefinder, continuous viewing system that gives me the confidence to say, "yes, I have it". I actually "hear" that I have the exact moment when the shutter goes off and I see what the portrait subject is doing. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share #29 Posted November 19, 2015 Thighslapper, I agreee, the SL is very quick, but it still blocks the exact time the picture is taken. After many years (40+) of using rangefinder cameras, I am much more confident with the eye/ear coordination of the M camera than any other system. The psychological disruption of vision with all other cameras does not help with knowing that you "have the shot". The M240 is too slow (not the latest version with 2GB). I'll wait on a faster M, I have lost too many shots with the M240 due to the full buffer. This takes away any very slight advantage that you are describing. Have you tried shooting with the SL? I think you are making statements based on a bias rather than experience. The camera give me more confidence that I got the shot, not less...but more importantly more confidence that I can get the next few shots. When Leica strips out the live view, adds more memory and new sensor I will get the new M...(not the M Typ262). For now the MM suits me fine, although slower than the M240 its a simpler camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted November 19, 2015 Share #30 Posted November 19, 2015 Digitalfx, I have shot with the SL enough to know that a black out is a black out. Buffering speed, or being able to take a lot of shots in a row very fast is not what I am talking about. When I shoot with an M240 or any M camera the sound of the shutter coincides with the picture actually being taken as I look through the finder. I see a picture, push the shutter release, hear the shutter go off, and make the mental connection that the picture is taken....Perfect for portraiture. I am not looking for a lot "decisive moments" all run together. I want just one shot that I can be sure is what I saw and captured. The M cameras are perfect for this kind of shooting. I love the SL, but I will still use the M240 for portrait work. Ciao, Sully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 20, 2015 Share #31 Posted November 20, 2015 Thighslapper, I agreee, the SL is very quick, but it still blocks the exact time the picture is taken. After many years (40+) of using rangefinder cameras, I am much more confident with the eye/ear coordination of the M camera than any other system. The psychological disruption of vision with all other cameras does not help with knowing that you "have the shot". When I first started using SLRs back in the '60s I noticed that I was shooting many more exposures to be sure that I had the picture I wanted. And that was with expensive film. Now, with "free" digital shots, it is easy to machine gun a portrait sessions. And I admit that using Canon/Nikon DSLRs that is possible. But there is still nothing like the absolute assurance of the rangefinder, continuous viewing system that gives me the confidence to say, "yes, I have it". I actually "hear" that I have the exact moment when the shutter goes off and I see what the portrait subject is doing. Ciao, Sully I started on SLRs and learned to keep my other eye open (I'm right-eyed). That way I am always looking at the subject: the blackout flash of the mirror in the right eye times with the sound and the live image I'm seeing with my left eye so I know exactly what happened at the moment of exposure. I found when I picked up a rangefinder camera (first in 1969) that I just kept shooting the same way. So there's no difference at all to me with respect to not being able to see during the blackout, and even the relatively slow M typ 240 Live View works fine from the viewing perspective. It's the responsiveness where it falls down; the SL is FAR more responsive than the M-P running Live View, and about 100x more responsive than the Nikon D750. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckli Posted November 21, 2015 Share #32 Posted November 21, 2015 My wallet does not want me to read this Hi Doug, Really looking forward to see what the SL can produce from your capable hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted November 21, 2015 Share #33 Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Doug, Really looking forward to see what the SL can produce from your capable hands. In a few months when demo bodies become available and my wallet fattens up your / my wish might be possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted November 21, 2015 Share #34 Posted November 21, 2015 I think I would be more inclined to trade my Nikon for a SL than get rid of my M. IMHO the SL is a more modern DSLR with similar functionality, and not a substitute for a M. I already have a D800e so I do not consider this a matter of any urgency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 21, 2015 Share #35 Posted November 21, 2015 digitalfx, Genius - Yes, I agree. I have missed the Canon 5DII and my 24-70/2.8. But, it never really allowed me the use of my R lenses and certainly not my M lenses. It was also too complex and it lacked good manual control. The SL would be a system like that, except, for me the SL is more what I want in a camera like that. It would also allow better use of R lenses including the 50mm Summilux R and the 280/4, for example. Of course, I can shoot all of my M lenses as well. The SL plus the 24-90 plus my M lenses would constitute a system. I'd still keep the M for travel and other sorts of things. It would be nuts to sell it. I think this is genius. But, I'm not in a hurry. I will wait until Photokina next year partly to see what that will bring. Until then, I'm still keeping all my Leica stuff. Rick p.s. digitalfx - Would you start a video users thread somewhere? I'd really like to follow that somewhere separately from the still aspect of the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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