keithlaban.co.uk Posted July 20, 2016 Share #881 Posted July 20, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...Enter the SL... Hi, please forgive me for the huge clip I've made to your post. The fact is I love the rangefinder on the M and wouldn't be without it and therein lies the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 Hi keithlaban.co.uk, Take a look here New Leica M in September 2016? The speculations.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ski542002 Posted July 20, 2016 Share #882 Posted July 20, 2016 Hi, please forgive me for the huge clip I've made to your post. The fact is I love the rangefinder on the M and wouldn't be without it and therein lies the problem. Ha Ha, I get it. I tend to get long-winded on many of my postings. Your love of the rangefinder is completely understood. While I greatly enjoyed the simplicity of my M's, and the rangefinder experience, as a system camera that would eventually replace my DSLR, the M was too limiting for many of the assignments I shoot. The SL brings me closer to a solution that fits my needs. That said, I'm looking forward to Leica's next update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share #883 Posted July 20, 2016 Nobody hear me..... I say again........it comes with a new CCD with color and B&W in the same sensor. You will see. I hear you, but I don't know what to answer. Explaine the colour and B&W please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2016 Share #884 Posted July 20, 2016 It simply makes no sense. All sensors are B&W, colour being created by the Bayer Filter plus software interpolation, so all colour sensors are both B&W and colour. As for CCD, not a chance. It is dead technology as far as camera makers are concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share #885 Posted July 20, 2016 It simply makes no sense. All sensors are B&W, colour being created by the Bayer Filter plus software interpolation, so all colour sensors are both B&W and colour. As for CCD, not a chance. It is dead technology as far as camera makers are concerned. So what you are saying is: A cmos sensor with an filter which can undo it's filtering function ( like the mirror in an slr camera ) + the software adjusted interpolation which shuts itself off in case the filter is in front of the sensor. We theoretically might have invented the colour /Monochrom combination. I wonder how many people will complain about the fatness of the body this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 20, 2016 Share #886 Posted July 20, 2016 Replacing the Bayer filter array sandwiched between the microlenses and the chip by a clear filter array – at the touch of a button I presume –, now that would be some feat … And last I heard, CCD was still dead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted July 20, 2016 Share #887 Posted July 20, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Back to the dilemma. Real world paid photography. Production of a new (rather interesting) play called Wittgenstein's Soul taking a period when the philosopher was a hospital orderly during WW1. Two M-240s with 50 + 28 and the Canon 5D2 + 70-200. Maybe I'll just have to stay with this combination as the Leica side of things covers me for reportage / documentary + portraits and landscapes, and the Canon + long zoom and an old USM L series 2.8 300 cover me for everything else. Unless Leica pulls a rabbit out of the hat in September, I'll have to leave my money in my pocket (where it's busy burning a hole - for heaven's sake - even my accountant is advising me to spend on capital equipment!) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/252591-new-leica-m-in-september-2016-the-speculations/?do=findComment&comment=3081971'>More sharing options...
GLOBETROTTER Posted July 20, 2016 Share #888 Posted July 20, 2016 I hear you, but I don't know what to answer. Explaine the colour and B&W please. Via internal filter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted July 20, 2016 Share #889 Posted July 20, 2016 As I do not know whether we'll see a new M at Photokina or later, I'd like to stick with what I know: Leica has introduced the T and the SL systems besides the M. There has always been much talk - from Leica - about gaps between different systems which could be closed by new models. As thoses gaps are closed now it would not be very rational to leave a larger gap in the middle - by abandoning the M. We see the M240 on rebate, which is a clear sign that the number of sold bodies is declining sharply. So I presume there will be a new M - perhaps not for Photokina, though all we know from the past, September would be the right moment. The M240 has the "Max" sensor. The design is owned by Leica, it is produced by Cemosis. If this cooperation has not run into severe problems - I didn't hear of any - it is not hard to predict they will have some interest to go further with it. The sensor's design is more than four years old, so to expect a knew generation is not totally unrealistic: perhaps some better high ISO performance, perhaps some adjustments of colours and some tweaking of the "Italian flag" problem. With the Q and the SL they managed to come around some shortcomings of the M electronics: you can shift the focus away from the display's center, you have a better display and of course you have a much better electronic viewfinder - compared to the Visoflex. So I'd expect to see thoses improvements in a new M. What about the rangefinder? I do not think they will abandon the M, so I presume the optical rangefinder stays. I don't expect a hybrid finder - perhaps one may wish to have one in the M, but I just don't think they can manage it. So the additional electronic viewfinder will stay, but it will have the quality of the SL finder. Perhaps - but that's the most of speculation I allow myself - we'll see an "a la carte" option: A traditional M with traditional rangefinder and a "modern" version with a high quality digital finder. That's all. No big changes for the body. Even the baseplate will be there as always. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted July 20, 2016 Share #890 Posted July 20, 2016 When my M240 is sitting idle on the shelf, I keep thinking about what might come next. When I am shooting or looking at the pics shot from my camera, I am perfectly happy with no desire to upgrade. Maybe I should sit idle for the GAS to build up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2016 Share #891 Posted July 20, 2016 So what you are saying is: A cmos sensor with an filter which can undo it's filtering function ( like the mirror in an slr camera ) + the software adjusted interpolation which shuts itself off in case the filter is in front of the sensor. We theoretically might have invented the colour /Monochrom combination. I wonder how many people will complain about the fatness of the body this time. No it could not work this way. A Bayer-Filter is a micron-precise overlay of minifilters over exactly defined sensels. No way could it be moveable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 20, 2016 Share #892 Posted July 20, 2016 Would the colour filter positioning require finer movement than an image stabilisation motion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2016 Share #893 Posted July 20, 2016 Via internal filter Excuse me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2016 Share #894 Posted July 20, 2016 Would the colour filter positioning require finer movement than an image stabilisation motion? Certainly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 20, 2016 Share #895 Posted July 20, 2016 Would the colour filter positioning require finer movement than an image stabilisation motion? The comparison doesn’t make much sense. An image stabiliser moves the sensor assembly by some small amount (a few millimetres at most) whereas changing the Bayer colour filter array implies sliding out a filter layer within the sensor stack and sliding in another filter layer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 20, 2016 Share #896 Posted July 20, 2016 I have a some more info. Is gonna be a CCD new sensor color & B/W via filter. Good news isn't it ? Really, it is non-news and in fact a step backwards. Any color sensor can produce B/W in post processing with superior results rather than using a monochrome sensor. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2016 Share #897 Posted July 21, 2016 Really, it is non-news and in fact a step backwards. Any color sensor can produce B/W in post processing with superior results rather than using a monochrome sensor. . Agree but for the orange bit, which is demonstrably untrue. A monochrome sensor has a clear advantage in resolution <no interpolation of a Bayer matrix>, better per-pixel acuity <no negative optical effects by aberrations of the Bayer filter> and a better tonal range, <due to better microcontrast because of the two former factors combined>. You should try a Monochrom side by side to a regular M one day... The only advantage of a converted colour image is the possibility to simulate colour filters. And, as with all simulations, that one is easy, close, but no cigar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 21, 2016 Share #898 Posted July 21, 2016 The comparison doesn’t make much sense. An image stabiliser moves the sensor assembly by some small amount (a few millimetres at most) whereas changing the Bayer colour filter array implies sliding out a filter layer within the sensor stack and sliding in another filter layer. Yes, I know but I was thinking about the small adjustment which would need to be made after some bulk mechanism had lifted the filter array out and back - slap it back down and then slightly adjust it to correctly position the filters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 21, 2016 Share #899 Posted July 21, 2016 Agree but for the orange bit, which is demonstrably untrue. A monochrome sensor has a clear advantage in resolution <no interpolation of a Bayer matrix>, better per-pixel acuity <no negative optical effects by aberrations of the Bayer filter> and a better tonal range, <due to better microcontrast because of the two former factors combined>. You should try a Monochrom side by side to a regular M one day... The only advantage of a converted colour image is the possibility to simulate colour filters. And, as with all simulations, that one is easy, close, but no cigar. Don't you have to correct purple fringing on a black and white image? I realise it won't be purple... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2016 Share #900 Posted July 21, 2016 No. Now that you mention it, I have never seen a comparable effect on a monochrome sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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