ramarren Posted November 4, 2015 Share #41 Posted November 4, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do you know the Novoflex adapter won't trigger the codes? I'm not doubting you, just wondering. I doubt very much the adapter will be auto diaphragm. I know people have asked for it, but that is a complication I don't see Leica taking on. They will simply say - get used to either using the lens stopped down and rely on the EVF adjustment, or stop it down yourself. I don't know for sure, none of my other Novoflex adapters ever supported lens codes. Scott Kirkpatrick seems to think it has the R code trigger built into it; if so, that's a plus. But I already have the two Leica adapters and I'll be content to use them. Anything about the Leica R adapter SL is speculation, whether from me or from anyone else, because Leica isn't talking about it yet. I have no idea what Leica will actually do, was just mentioning some possibilities that would be nice. I suspect they'll do something more than a mounting tube with flanges and a lens code trigger... but I look forward to what they come up with. If nothing else, they can devise an R lens mounting that doesn't shroud the corners the way the current R Adapter M does with the 19mm lens. It's an artifact of necking a 49mm diameter lens mount down to the M's 44mm diameter; the L mount is 50mm, so a native R mount can be entirely free of this kind of shrouding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Hi ramarren, Take a look here interview with Dr. Kaufmann and CEO Kaltner on the SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted November 4, 2015 Share #42 Posted November 4, 2015 I wouldn't want to speculate on how much the Leica R to T adapter will do, but the Novoflex R to T adapter that is presently available probably only presents the R-adapter 6-bit code to the T that an R to M adapter presents to an M. The T doesn't read that code from the 6 black and white spots on the mount, but over its electrical interface. I suppose the T has some M lenses stored and perhaps even some R lenses. The R to M adapter code lets an M user call up a list of possible R lenses which are stored in the M firmware, with their correction information. The SL comes with a longer list, but the M's list can be upgraded with a firmware update in the future. The M to L adapter from Leica apparently reads the M 6-bit code from an M lens and passes that to the electrical contacts on the L mount. So if you stack an R to M adapter on top, it will pass the R to M adapter code along to the SL. scott That's as I understand it. I'm expecting the Novoflex R to L adapter (LET/LER) to simply provide the generic R code to the SL, triggering the list. That's what I understand Leica's adapter will do as well. The manual for the SL (page 272) confirms that the M adapter will "transmit the lens data provided by the lenses' 6-but coding to the camera." The R to M adapter simply tells the camera that there is an R lens attached - you have to select the lens from the list generated in camera. There's no reason to think that the Novoflex adapter won't do the same (though I do recall Leica being protective over their 6 bit coding. There's nothing helpful on the Novoflex site. PS - I know this is probably somewhere in the wiki, but while we're on the subject, what purpose does the ROM connection serve on the later R lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 4, 2015 Share #43 Posted November 4, 2015 When do you think there will be a new M ? Year/month is ok. I'm not Leica. What do my thoughts on the subject matter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 4, 2015 Share #44 Posted November 4, 2015 That's as I understand it. I'm expecting the Novoflex R to L adapter (LET/LER) to simply provide the generic R code to the SL, triggering the list. That's what I understand Leica's adapter will do as well. The manual for the SL (page 272) confirms that the M adapter will "transmit the lens data provided by the lenses' 6-but coding to the camera." The R to M adapter simply tells the camera that there is an R lens attached - you have to select the lens from the list generated in camera. There's no reason to think that the Novoflex adapter won't do the same (though I do recall Leica being protective over their 6 bit coding. There's nothing helpful on the Novoflex site. PS - I know this is probably somewhere in the wiki, but while we're on the subject, what purpose does the ROM connection serve on the later R lenses? I believe we will have to wait for the Leica R to SL adapter to show. I don't see any Novoflex R to SL adapter offering the gold contacts needed on the camera side to transmit any information from the R lenses to the SL. For the moment only the M to T (SL) adapter has those contacts on the camera side and the 6 bit reader on the lens side. Both the Leica and the latest Novoflex R to M adapters have the 6 bit coding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 4, 2015 Share #45 Posted November 4, 2015 That's as I understand it. I'm expecting the Novoflex R to L adapter (LET/LER) to simply provide the generic R code to the SL, triggering the list. That's what I understand Leica's adapter will do as well. The manual for the SL (page 272) confirms that the M adapter will "transmit the lens data provided by the lenses' 6-but coding to the camera." The R to M adapter simply tells the camera that there is an R lens attached - you have to select the lens from the list generated in camera. There's no reason to think that the Novoflex adapter won't do the same (though I do recall Leica being protective over their 6 bit coding. There's nothing helpful on the Novoflex site. PS - I know this is probably somewhere in the wiki, but while we're on the subject, what purpose does the ROM connection serve on the later R lenses? My understanding is that they transmit a full complement of dynamic lens data to the body, supporting exposure evaluation, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 5, 2015 Share #46 Posted November 5, 2015 PS - I know this is probably somewhere in the wiki, but while we're on the subject, what purpose does the ROM connection serve on the later R lenses? With ROM, the R8/R9 knew before firing what was be the real aperture (including vignetting which is different at each aperture and on each lens) in order to calculate more precisely the exposition. With lenses without ROM, those two cameras gave an average result. Leica said also that small lenses with ROM permit shorter time parallax than bigger ones because, thanks to the ROM, the camera knows the exact delay before the diaphragm was closed and could start earlier the process of firing. With a 280/2,8 at f8 it will be longer than with a 19/2,8 at same aperture, or than with the same 280/2,8 at f2,8. With lenses without ROM, the camera always choose the longest delay. With the APO-Extender 2X ROM (#11 269) the viewfinder displayed the real (resulting) aperture if used with a ROM lens, and the camera knew the new focal length of the lens (or zoom) and moved the flash head accordingly. The Apo-Extender 1,4 X was never made with ROM and couldn't be retrofitted with it. By the way, ROM are passive. They don't calculate anything. It's the camera which will calculate thanks the info stored at the factory inside the ROM. At the end of manufacture, or when retrofitting of older lenses, every Leica-R lens was individually measured and programmed in order to make sure that the potential accuracy of the exposure metering was maintained at each aperture. Two identical lenses may have different ROM's information inside. If, after the lens left the factory, there is a problem with the diaphragm mechanism, the ROM will NOT know it. All the information I give you here are coming from Leica Fotographie (7/98) on pages 30 and 31 and confirmed by Leica technician answers to the question I've asked during my visit in May 2001 at the Solms factory. What I'm saying about the ROM Apo-Extender 2X (and it's the same with the macro-adapter ROM) is from my personal experience with those accessories used with ROM lenses. Lenses and Vario zooms with ROM made some Leica and Metz flash head zoom. May I add that not all the zooms with ROM will make the flash head zoom. The Vario-Apo 70-180/2,8 and 105-280/4,2 are only locking the flash head on their minimum focal length. As an example: the ROM of the 70-180 will lock the flash head on 70mm. And a 70-180 ROM + APO 2 X ROM will lock the flash head on 105mm. No zooming. But on the other hand, they were the only Leica zooms that you could send to the factory in order to have the ROM added. Regarding the improvement in accuracy, the correction of the exposition was made via the steps of the R8/R9 shutter, not by lens aperture. I wonder if the new SL lenses are sending the same kind of sophisticated information to the SL 601. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted November 5, 2015 Share #47 Posted November 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) "Because the M incorporates the spirit of this company. And the spirit is between revolution and tradition." That is a hugely well thought through and insightful comment. Really like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 5, 2015 Share #48 Posted November 5, 2015 Overall, Leica's message is the following: - We don't care about MP Quite obviously Leica doesn’t subscribe to the position that more megapixels are of utmost importance. I think I had mentioned that myself a couple of times by now. - We will only provide new lenses, especially new "old" lenses (wtf) If you interpret that statement as being exclusive of other possible new products which I think was not intended. - The M will remain pure (no new technologies) Or there will be new technologies as long as they don’t detract from the M’s purity. there is no plan for a new M camera. Not within the next couple of months anyway. They might be working on a new M to be announced at photokina but they would not drop a hint until a few weeks before that date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 5, 2015 Share #49 Posted November 5, 2015 Kaufmann interview also discussed in this earlier thread, concentrating on his M lens comment... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/252231-leica-to-rework-older-m-lenses/ Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 5, 2015 Share #50 Posted November 5, 2015 When do you think there will be a new M ? Year/month is ok. Have there been any announcements by Sony and Zeiss concerning their new cameras and lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 5, 2015 Share #51 Posted November 5, 2015 I don't know for sure, none of my other Novoflex adapters ever supported lens codes. Scott Kirkpatrick seems to think it has the R code trigger built into it; if so, that's a plus. But I already have the two Leica adapters and I'll be content to use them. Anything about the Leica R adapter SL is speculation, whether from me or from anyone else, because Leica isn't talking about it yet. I have no idea what Leica will actually do, was just mentioning some possibilities that would be nice. I suspect they'll do something more than a mounting tube with flanges and a lens code trigger... but I look forward to what they come up with. I have a Novoflex R to M with spots milled into it that you can paint with the "R-adapter" 6bit code, so I was thinking that Novoflex would do something similar but appropriate for the T (now L) mount. But I haven't seen a Novoflex R to T, and I was not aware of all the other things that the ROM interface was capable of on the R8 and R9 (see Leicaiste's note just above). Unless Leica has already offered an R to T adapter (I gather they have not), there may not even be T firmware that would bring up the list of lenses comparable to what the M offers. Thus no reason for Leica to make known an R to T interface spec before now, and little incentive for Novoflex to reverse engineer one. (Unless they knew things that we did not.) So please disregard my comment on that issue. I didn't think it through. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted November 5, 2015 Share #52 Posted November 5, 2015 I haven't seen a Novoflex R to T, and I was not aware of all the other things that the ROM interface was capable of on the R8 and R9 (see Leicaiste's note just above). Unless Leica has already offered an R to T adapter (I gather they have not), there may not even be T firmware that would bring up the list of lenses comparable to what the M offers. Thus no reason for Leica to make known an R to T interface spec before now, and little incentive for Novoflex to reverse engineer one. (Unless they knew things that we did not.) So please disregard my comment on that issue. I didn't think it through. scott Scott, is this the Novoflex adapter that you are referring to? http://www.amazon.de/Novoflex-Objektivadapter-Adapter-Adapterring-Objektiv/dp/B00Q8HJQPO John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkonkkrete Posted November 5, 2015 Share #53 Posted November 5, 2015 "Because the M incorporates the spirit of this company. And the spirit is between revolution and tradition." That is a hugely well thought through and insightful comment. Really like that. Not sure if you're taking the Micky, but I can't help but disagree. It sounds like an incredibly bland corporate platitude to me. I can't think of any major German brand (or successful Mittelstand company for that matter) that would say something different about their biggest selling product. They know what they're doing but they do talk in horrendous cliches IMO. What does it even mean? Between revolution and tradition? Everything and nothing. Pretentious waffle! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 5, 2015 Share #54 Posted November 5, 2015 Yes, it seems to say "we are neither revolutionary nor traditional" which, put another way, could be interpreted as "we simply follow the crowd". I agree it is a nonsensical statement totally in keeping with contemporary marketing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 5, 2015 Share #55 Posted November 5, 2015 It might not have altered the substance of what the company does, but it might have been better if he'd used the word "both" instead of "between". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 5, 2015 Share #56 Posted November 5, 2015 Scott, is this the Novoflex adapter that you are referring to? http://www.amazon.de/Novoflex-Objektivadapter-Adapter-Adapterring-Objektiv/dp/B00Q8HJQPO John Thanks. Isn't it wonderful how much can be learned by asking Amazon or Google a simple question? From the Amazon listing, clicking on the image shows the back side of the adapter -- no electrical contacts to tell the T anything useful. The description just says it provides the correct spacing from image plane to the R lens, and thus works in manual or aperture-controlled modes. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 5, 2015 Share #57 Posted November 5, 2015 Smaller? Thinner? I doubt it. AF compatibility with S, SL & T lenses? I doubt that too. I don't mean small like a CL... I mean a bit smaller and thinner... and lighter... Maybe new design for the internals and new screens or batteries allow for a thinner body, who knows. The M system should be "the smallest 24x36 system in the market". A true pocket system, as small as possible. The "purity" is vapor-marketing. "Small" has to be the new mantra for the M system. The Summarit lenses are the "smallest" in the system, not the "cheap" or "entry level" units... they are top class... super small... lenses. Etc. I find the the digital bodies too fat and heavy... A 50mm Summarit lens on a film body is a very ergonomic and small... wonderful tool!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 5, 2015 Share #58 Posted November 5, 2015 "Small" has to be the new mantra for the M system. The Summarit lenses are the "smallest" in the system, not the "cheap" or "entry level" units... they are top class... super small... lenses. Etc. http://leicarumors.com/2015/10/23/check-out-this-leica-m-typ-801-concept-camera.aspx/#more-38189 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 5, 2015 Share #59 Posted November 5, 2015 http://leicarumors.com/2015/10/23/check-out-this-leica-m-typ-801-concept-camera.aspx/#more-38189 Ugly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpclee Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share #60 Posted November 5, 2015 looks like the Yashica fixed lens rangefinder I paid $35 for in 1999 http://leicarumors.com/2015/10/23/check-out-this-leica-m-typ-801-concept-camera.aspx/#more-38189 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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