lct Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share #61 Posted November 13, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well i respect you my friend but i don't understand how a professional camera can have such ergonomics frankly and i wonder how good guys like you and Sean can find this OK. Anyway please forgive me but there have been terrorists attacks not far from me in Paris tonight. TV's reporting more than 40 deaths, 60 wounded and an unknown number of people held hostage in a concert hall. My wife and i are safe and my daughter is attending a movie in Paris on the other side of the river Seine fortunately but i'm managing to leave Paris as soon as possible with my family for sake of security. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 13, 2015 Posted November 13, 2015 Hi lct, Take a look here How to trigger image magnification by the right thumb?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jonoslack Posted November 13, 2015 Share #62 Posted November 13, 2015 I'm terribly sorry. I've just heard the news. Be Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 14, 2015 Share #63 Posted November 14, 2015 The news gets worse - 140 dead and borders closed! Stay safe! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share #64 Posted November 14, 2015 Most have been shot like sheep to the slaughter. Poor people. I'm in my cottage now but my daughter is still in Paris and i will feel better when she's with us tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted November 14, 2015 Share #65 Posted November 14, 2015 Seems wilful to dismiss something untried on the basis of a crime it might not have committed. Especially when the two people who have really tried it protest its innocence! Even more so when it's swapping something which does really well with M lenses for something which really doesn't! Seems equally silly to spend $7450 USD to just to find out what I thought wouldn't work well, does indeed not work as wanted / expected. If it was a simple matter of driving downtown to try a SL, no big deal. But there are no camera dealers in Dallas, Texas or the surrounding 200 miles that carry Leica cameras. I'm pretty sure you can extend that radius to 400-500 miles (I've looked at the Leica distributers at their website). There are stores that will order it, but they carry no stock. My only option is buy one, then if I don't like it, return it - which is unfair to the dealer since they are now stuck selling a used camera because I didn't like it. On a more philosophical level, the whole advantage of an EVF is being sure - really, really sure about focus. Looking through one at 1/6th of the image resolution and guessing that something might be in focus - that's no better than an OVF. I may as well continue shooting the M lenses on the M-P. And if I need an EVF, while I'm not a big Sony fan, I'll begrudgingly concede the A7II works pretty well. If Leica does one of the following (or more), I'll buy it - 1) links focus magnification to joy stick 2) allows focus magnification to be assigned to any of the 4 soft buttons 3) releases an updated Leica T adapter with a pin/mechanism for sensing focus cam movement (thus allowing for auto magnification) But until one of those options materialize, it's a no go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 14, 2015 Share #66 Posted November 14, 2015 I think if someone doesn't plan to modify the sensor, buying a Sony to use Leica glass with it is just too weird. You take multi thousand dollars gear and you make it perform like a coke bottle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share #67 Posted November 14, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think if someone doesn't plan to modify the sensor, buying a Sony to use Leica glass with it is just too weird. You take multi thousand dollars gear and you make it perform like a coke bottle. Well i have the glass already and i won't use the SL as is anyway so my options are limited. The A7S seems to give better results than the other Sony's though. Just developped a couple raw files out of it and they look better than my X-E2 files with M lenses. Not a perfect camera for sure but neither is the SL and the A7S is small, fast, and unbeatable at high isos. I could even keep it when the next M is lauched. Remains to see if i can activate focus magnification easily with it though... Good reviews here: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/07/15/the-sony-a7s-a-new-camera-for-leica-m-lenses-by-ashwin-rao/ http://rangefinderchronicles.blogspot.fr/2014/08/the-sony-a7s-review-part-1-leica-m.html#!/2014/08/the-sony-a7s-review-part-1-leica-m.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 14, 2015 Share #68 Posted November 14, 2015 Well i have the glass already and i won't use the SL as is anyway so my options are limited. The A7S seems to give better results than the other Sony's though. Just developped a couple raw files out of it and they look better than my X-E2 files with M lenses. Not a perfect camera for sure but neither is the SL and the A7S is small, fast, and unbeatable at high isos. I could even keep it when the next M is lauched. Remains to see if i can activate focus magnification easily with it though... Good reviews here: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/07/15/the-sony-a7s-a-new-camera-for-leica-m-lenses-by-ashwin-rao/ http://rangefinderchronicles.blogspot.fr/2014/08/the-sony-a7s-review-part-1-leica-m.html#!/2014/08/the-sony-a7s-review-part-1-leica-m.html The magnification button is conveniently located near the shutter release, though sometimes it's difficult to locate by touch because it has a low profile. The only reason the S behaves better than the other two is because of the low pixel count. If you resize the files, you get exactly the same results as with the S, possibly better. I think the SL really smokes the a7 bodies with Leica glass, even modded ones. I would personally wait to see if Leica would update the firmware promptly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share #69 Posted November 14, 2015 Took us more than one year to get decent auto iso with the M240. Leica's taken the bad habit to use us as paying beta testers... I think i will wait for their replies to LUF questions but i don't hold my breath... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 14, 2015 Share #70 Posted November 14, 2015 In any case, if you choose to go the Sony way, I would strongly recommend the A7RII. It seems to be fantastic with almost no color shading and vignetting with extreme M wides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 14, 2015 Share #71 Posted November 14, 2015 This thread gets stranger by the minute. An A7s, with worse performance than any Leica, is better because of the location of the focus magnification button? I wonder if selling your Leica lenses and buying some Zeiss lenses might not be a better idea - Leica M lenses on an A7? Focus magnification will be the least of your problems. Or or is this like blazing saddles - "don't move or the [black guy] gets it"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share #72 Posted November 14, 2015 An A7s, with worse performance than any Leica, is better because of the location of the focus magnification button? I wonder if selling your Leica lenses and buying some Zeiss lenses might not be a better idea - Leica M lenses on an A7? Will never happen John. I have so many Leica lenses that i don't count them anymore... Some bodies are good, others are... what they are but a Leica lens is a Leica lens. As nice as it can be for you, the SL would be useless for me for the simple reason that i would not use it at all, c'est la vie . Now look at my links above. The authors of those reviews are serious people and one of our mods (Earl?) is using an A7S as well if memory serves. One of my favorite cameras right now is my little Fuji X-E2. It does exactly what i'm expecting but it is an APS camera and its IQ could be better. If the A7S can be a better Fuji it can replace my 5D1 as digital back for R lenses and occasionally for M ones pending the next digital M or an possible upgrade of the SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 14, 2015 Share #73 Posted November 14, 2015 Good luck with that. I hated the A7 when I had one, and the results with Leica glass were ultimately not good enough. On on the plus side, as what you're looking for is a software issue, perhaps Leica will listen - the thought of you not buying an SL may be too much to bear ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share #74 Posted November 14, 2015 Ha ha! They have bigger fish to fry hopefully for them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 14, 2015 Share #75 Posted November 14, 2015 Well i have the glass already and i won't use the SL as is anyway so my options are limited. The A7S seems to give better results than the other Sony's though. Just developped a couple raw files out of it and they look better than my X-E2 files with M lenses. Not a perfect camera for sure but neither is the SL and the A7S is small, fast, and unbeatable at high isos. I could even keep it when the next M is lauched. Remains to see if i can activate focus magnification easily with it though... Good reviews here: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/07/15/the-sony-a7s-a-new-camera-for-leica-m-lenses-by-ashwin-rao/ http://rangefinderchronicles.blogspot.fr/2014/08/the-sony-a7s-review-part-1-leica-m.html#!/2014/08/the-sony-a7s-review-part-1-leica-m.html The A7s is no different with M lenses In terms of corner resolution than any of the other A7 cameras, if you don't believe me look at Ron Scheffler's excellent work or Sean Reid. It's principally about the thickness of the cover glass which is unchanged, and it's worse the further you are from the subject. I might note here that I've owned all the A7s except the A7sii and the A7rii, but they all have the same cover glass. But what I really find strange is to reject the SL on ergonomic grounds over an A7? With the SL you can adjust EVERYTHING with your eye to the viewfinder, no fiddly little buttons and the joystick is fantastic for moving the focus point (and the zoomed in area as well). The top LCD is fantastically useful and it's great to be able to move the spot exposure area around the screen when manually focusing. The touch screen is fantastic for review (and for picking a focus point when using a tripod. I found with the A7 that the buttons were so small and similar that I had to keep taking my eye from the viewfinder to alter things - the only thing that's easier is the dedicated exposure compensation dial and having to use your left thumb to engage zooming in. if you said it was too heavy, too expensive, or didn't have enough native lenses, all that seems reasonable (personal stuff). But ergonomics? When compared to a Sony? I'm flabbergasted! All of which is not to suggest that I don't think that Leica should allow you to program zoom focus on all the buttons (and on the joystick press) - or that I don't think they should enable direct exposure compensation on the top dial when in A or M mode (I do think they should). . . . . . . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 14, 2015 Share #76 Posted November 14, 2015 Ha ha! They have bigger fish to fry hopefully for them Oops - tried to send you a PM about fish - but your box seems to be full! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share #77 Posted November 14, 2015 I'm sure you like much the SL Jono and i would not complain if i were not interested but i won't repeat myself ad nauseam here. I want to be able to activate focus magnification with my right thumb the same easy way as i can do it with other well designed cameras, as simple as that... Edit: I dont know how PMs work on the 'new' forum sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 14, 2015 Share #78 Posted November 14, 2015 In any case, if you choose to go the Sony way, I would strongly recommend the A7RII. It seems to be fantastic with almost no color shading and vignetting with extreme M wides. HI Edward I also get the impression that the colour shading is greatly improved . . . but not the vignetting, and not the resolution at the corners either - as Sean Reid and Ron Scheffler will tell you, this is a function of the thickness of the cover glass, not of the firmware, and it hasn't changed. Each new iteration of the A7 and someone say "This time they've fixed it for M lenses" . . . and then someone does a proper test and shows that they haven't - some wides work really well: WATE, 21 'lux, 24 'lux, 28 'lux . . some really don't 28 'cron, 35 'cron, 35 'lux and even the 50 'lux. Basically, for M lenses to work on full frame you need two things: 1. thin cover glass 2. firmware vignetting and colour cast correction The M has this . . and so does the SL (although it's cover glass is a little thicker and it's performance is not quite as good as the M). I've spent hours and hours with a tripod, 3 bodies and a bunch of lenses verifying this (there are some samples in the M lens thread). Whatever - I'm going to get a glass of wine Have a good evening everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 14, 2015 Share #79 Posted November 14, 2015 That's exactly what I told lct, Jono The SL will be a better EVF based platform for M glass than any A7 version. I don't like the placement of the magnify button on the SL but I trust Leica will do something about it. Even if they don't, image quality is more important to me. Anyhow the M remains my favorite camera because of the viewfinder and size, but I'm sure I will get along with the SL just fine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 14, 2015 Share #80 Posted November 14, 2015 Having handled both side by side, the SL body with a Summilux-R 50mm lens is just a smidge larger than the M-P as I carry it with a Nokton 50/1.5. Where it improves on things for larger, heavier lenses is in the large hand grip built into the right side, the placement of the EVF reticle (directly above the lens axis) and the sensible restraint on number of buttons/dials/switches on the body. I have every confidence that more direct button customization than is currently available will be available soon, but I found it eminently usable as it is presently. Just a few more days ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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