Leica SL: the DMR replacement we were hoping for?

[Shac]

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Probably missing something but with an EVF what is the need for a lever to open up/stop down? The EVF adjusts brightness accordingly but indicates directly "DOF", and the SL's EVF sounds excellent ("best in class" 

at present)

[AndreasAM]

There is no significant capital for Leica to make an auto-diaphragm adapter for R lenses. They no longer made the lenses, and it would be hugely expensive. We coped with manual diaphragm lenses by pressing a manual button or lever. That could be made, but would anyone want it?

 

 

Yes I would. As I described earlier it would make live easier when shooting R-lenses on the desired preset aperture, especially with macro and the longer tele's on the T and SL (next year)

[ph.]

My first Leica was a second hand IIIc with nothing auto, so I still wish for Leitz quality in a pocketable, utopian  digital.

 

I am spoiled by the clear R9 viewfinder and by digitals that stabilize the sensor rather than the lens.

 

I wish for a "full frame" i.e. 20 to 40+ Mp camera (size needed for enlarging "crops") with stabilized sensor,  electronic viewfinder (no mechanic mirror to make noises), also no screen to eat batteries or be broken when you drop it or sit on it, and definitely absolutely  no touch screen (to move focus and light metering point when accidentally toutched). It should be able to take M and R optics.

 

No WiFi to eat batteries, but definitely one button to enlarge the center point for focussing (which should also measure light at that point). Filming , optional, if 4k inceases cost, I can do without. 

 

Option to restrict ISO\DIN settings so as to control noise is important and, definitely, an option to set shutter time (and then adjusting mechanical aperture) rather than having the camera choose what it thinks is best is necessary.

 

 

p.

[Likaleica]

That will not be possible. There will be no levers in the camera or the mount to work with the aperture cam on the lens.

 

You would have to use the R lenses in stop down metering mode, in exactly the same way that you would via a Leitax mount on a Nikon.

 

I'm happy to stop down for a few years until SL lenses start coming out.

 

And along those lines, suddenly there's a dearth of 400mm and higher R lenses on eBay.

[pico]

Yes I would. As I described earlier it would make live easier when shooting R-lenses on the desired preset aperture, especially with macro and the longer tele's on the T and SL (next year)

Okay, you are the costumer of one. Consider how large and expensive it would be.

[AndreasAM]

Okay, you are the costumer of one. Consider how large and expensive it would be.

 

 

Are you talking about the adapter or the SL?

 

In my considerations for the adapter a few things are important;

1. So far the Leica solution of a T-M and M-R adapter combination isn't that practical. They are not locked that firmly, so you lose your horizontal or vertical position of the camera quite easily by turning them slightly in daily use. And it is far from elegant to use two stacked adapters between the camera and lens.

2. The Novoflex adapter T-R fixes this, but doesn't play nice with the software of the T and I suspect the SL as well. You lose some functionality on the buttons.

3. A Leica L-R adapter is the best of both worlds in this case. 

4. If they would make it possible to use my R-lenses with AAC, then I can use these lenses with its full potential in a natural workflow as with my old Leica R 6.2. Wouldn't that be nice, just what we were waiting and almost lost hope fore. Even just a mechanical solution would be a huge progress. Cost probably as much as an R-lens, which I have plenty of, but will be worth it.

 

Concerning considering buying the SL, It is still in the balance.

I use a T for daily use in my work as an architect. It is light and small, has a great UI, nice picture quality and with the new lenses coming, it makes a nice travel kit  (21, 35, 90-macro). Although there is still need for a Wide Angle. But I think investing in an M-lens, SEM 21 and using it with a larger DOF at 5.6 or 8, will do the job for architecture well I think (no stopping down is necessary). Using my PC-R-Super Angulon 28mm. on the T makes no sense and still sits in the closet. 

 

Also sometimes the AF is welcome.

 

A second version of the T (TL?) will probably be having some SL-genes injected I suppose (faster, better integrated EVF, weather sealed, perhaps 24Mpx), but still APS-C. Looking forward to this.

 

Using the T with my existing R-lenses is doable, but does bring some ergonomical problems. The balance with the longer lenses isn't that great and the focal length is multiplied by 1.5. Which is sometimes practical, but not for the PC-SA 28 mm. and the Wide Angles.

 

Comes in full frame, for the increasing times I use a camera for myself, for more personal "fine art" work, printing bigger thus needing a bit more quality and pixels in the camera, still mostly for architecture, (urban) landscape and nature/macro. 

 

Within a year I have two choices within the Leica biosphere, the M or the SL.

Let's presume the M gets a better EVF, like the Q, Not a SL-one, this EVF will be too big to integrate in or on the M.

 

I could trade in the T for the M and use the M for a high quality travel kit and use it for my daily and personal work with 3 new M-lenses and existing R-lenses. But the kit is not so light anymore, unless the M slims down. Using a RF in the future looks attractive. Using R-lenses on the M will be easier but still the balance camera-lens will not be ideal. And stopping down the R-lenses will be still necessary after focussing.

 

The SL next to the T brings a lot of other possibilities though. Firstly they have the same L-mount. Looks futureproof in lens-investments, but I wouldn't be using T-lenses on the SL until it will get 36 Mpx, so the crop will leave 16 Mpx or thereabouts.

The SL looks far more suited for the R-lenses, especially with an possible L-R adapter with AAC enabled. It will be better on a tripod. It will have a far better EVF and is a dedicated TTL camera.

 

And, important to me in the longer term, I think Sinar will bring a (mini) View Camera, suitable for MF and for the S or L-mount, probably both, like Cambo and Arca Swiss did. This will open a sensible road into good tilt and shift in a more professional workflow, using the SL as an quality digital back. I then only have to invest in 1 or 2 Sinar or Rodenstock lenses. 

 

Much to ponder on, but I certainly won't be an early tester for the SL this year. I will wait until the next M and a possible Sinar move. The improved L-R adapter will always be handy on the T.

[sc_rufctr]

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It may not be a perfect solution for our R lenses but it's certainly a good start. The future... Who knows?

Although not so important I like they way it's designed so our lenses should at least look right mounted on  the SL.

 

So is it really the first Pro Mirrorless? 

 

IMO... It's everything a Pro SL® should be in 2015.

[dkCambridgeshire]

A 'smart' R to SL is possible and the outline design has been documented elsewhere. If there are sufficient potential sales, a third party mount manufacturer might consider offering a 'smart' R to SL adaptor. But, if they do, I just hope the mount aligns parallel to the the image plane - thus permitting use of Leica R shift lenses. I bought a well known third party's OM to M adaptor but it was unusable with my OM shift lens because it was several degrees out of alignment. 

 

dunk

[wildlightphoto]

The DMR had been a long time favorite camera to me, especially for birding. The results of the R-lenses is just stunning, even so much that I am willing to accept all the quirks of the DMR (freezing, battery drain, 2GB cards, slow, low resolution, max iso 400).

 

Enter the SL: an SLR-like high-res viewfinder, R-mount compatible, SLR-like grip, dual card slots, full frame, more iso etc. Is this the "R10" we have been waiting for or not? The M(240) with the optional viewfinder did never do the trick, because the resolution of the viewfinder is far beyond usable with R-glass. The SL however could be just the solution.....

 

What are your thoughts?

 

My beloved DMR has been my birding camera too and upon hearing the first rumors of the SL the DMR was up for sale.

 

I've also been using the Sony a7II and while I'm still struggling with the color quality (compared with the DMR) and several other quirks the advantages of the Sony's EVF are many.  Combine a state-of-the-art EVF with DMR color quality and I'll be happy especially if my R APO lenses will be fully functional.

 

 

Okay, you are the costumer of one. Consider how large and expensive it would be.

 

I'd buy a smart R adapter too.  Leica has seen the strategic advantage of making adapters to use non-native lenses on their cameras.

[UliWer]

The mount would have to have a motor in it, wouldn't it?

 

The body would electronically tell the mount which aperture it is choosing (in P mode - if there is one) and the mount would need to have solenoid or something similar that would move a lever on the front of the mount to the appropriate position to set the aperture on the lens. All in 1/8000th of a second.

 

I just can't see it happening.

The mechanism in the original R-Mount was triggered by electrics, not just mechanical, wasn't it? And it was not soooo large.  

 

So the R-to-L-adapter would need more or less the same technique as the original R-mount with the L-Mount only giving the electrical impulse. 

 

The fact that Leica cannot deliver the R-to-L-adapter from the very start of the SL either means that Wetzlar went rather incompetent in these things, or they have to justify the delay by some need of technical development.  

[stunsworth]

The mechanism in the original R-Mount was triggered by electrics, not just mechanical, wasn't it?

The R mount was mechanical. Electrical contacts were added to some lenses so they could pass focal length information etc. to the R8 and R9.

[pico]

The mechanism in the original R-Mount was triggered by electrics, not just mechanical, wasn't it? And it was not soooo large.  

 

So the R-to-L-adapter would need more or less the same technique as the original R-mount with the L-Mount only giving the electrical impulse. 

 

The fact that Leica cannot deliver the R-to-L-adapter from the very start of the SL either means that Wetzlar went rather incompetent in these things, or they have to justify the delay by some need of technical development.  

 

Only the R8 and R9 could use the ROM lenses. Each ROM lens had its own chip that told the camera what aperture was being used. I think it was simply for to tell the camera when, exactly, it could operate the shutter.

 

R lenses had mount changes to obviate trying to use certain lenses on earlier bodies. It gets complex.

[pierovitch]

How about a prosthetic adaptor including an R10 front face in black chrome over 3D printed sintered titanium faceplate. If Zenit can do "plastic surgery" on an old camera for lomographers, why not a high end retro makeover. And how hard can a ground glass simulation mode be[emoji33]

[pico]

And how hard can a ground glass simulation mode be[emoji33]

As we are being lighthearted should we not expect to provide an optional upside-down and backwards display?

[Leicaiste]

I think it will be great, I do hope though that the R - L adapter has the following features:

 

Auto aperture control (so no stopped down metering)

ROM contacts for EXIF

 

I would be pleased if the R-L adapter offers ROM contact. It would improve the internal correction of the files in the SL with R Vario. 

[koob]

That will not be possible. There will be no levers in the camera or the mount to work with the aperture cam on the lens.

 

You would have to use the R lenses in stop down metering mode, in exactly the same way that you would via a Leitax mount on a Ni

"That will not be possible. There will be no levers in the camera or the mount to work with the aperture cam on the lens."

 

I don't see why not, lens lever to electronic signal can happen in the adapter itself. Very similar to what the chip addition process to old nikon lenses are done for years.

[jpattison]

R lenses on the SL...

 

I don't see what the issue is. Leica lenses are designed to be used at full aperture , who needs AAC?

If you need excessive DOF, the EVF will show where the focus is ( I assume, with its focus peaking)

I've never had an autofocus camera, Nikon F2 (in the '70s)  and R8/9 (now with a R6) my only SLRs.

I'd have an SL with R-L adapter, my DMR will keep me happy until I've saved up enough!

John

[wildlightphoto]

R lenses on the SL...

 

I don't see what the issue is. Leica lenses are designed to be used at full aperture , who needs AAC?

If you need excessive DOF, the EVF will show where the focus is ( I assume, with its focus peaking)

 

 

I want optimum focus on the animal's eye.  I also want more than just the eye within the DOF.  I don't have time to stop the lens down manually.  The automatic aperture helps me accomplish these objectives.

[andybarton]

I would be pleased if the R-L adapter offers ROM contact. It would improve the internal correction of the files in the SL with R Vario. 

 

Does the SL have connectors in the mount capable of reading  the information provided by the ROM on an R lens? I doubt it.

[wildlightphoto]

Does the SL have connectors in the mount capable of reading  the information provided by the ROM on an R lens? I doubt it.

 

I'd be surprised if it is not capable of reading lens data.  I'd expect that an adapter could transmit ROM data from an R lens to the SL.

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Hallo,

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