Need Help from a M Monochrom (2012) owner

[SubPixel]

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Hello, I am looking for someone who owns both MM (2012) and M9 cameras. I would like to better examine the nature of the monochrome capture versus the conversion from color.  Specifically, I am in need of one raw DNG file from each camera of the same subject.  The shots do not have to be framed identically, but they do need to use the same lens.  Also, the photos must include some solid vibrant red, blue and green colors. It could be as simple as a red flower with green leaves against a blue sky, or someone wearing a colorful shirt, or colorful wall graffiti, etc.

 

If you can help, please respond.  Thank you.

 

[fiftyonepointsix]

M Monochrom with 35/1.7 Ultron at F4, contrast filter- light red.:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3o2w399df47m246/L1000804.DNG?dl=0

 

 

JPEG=

Mt_Vernon_35ultron_Red_filter by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

DETAIL Above, 100% crop:

 

chimney_monochrom by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

 

M9 with 35/1.7 Ultron at F4:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnd3w0stebfiple/L1007003.DNG?dl=0

 

My Monochrome conversion of the above,

 

Mt_Vernon_35Ultron_NoSharp_Simulated_RED by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

DETAIL Above:

 

chimney_m9_converted by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

The biggest difference- look at the edges of the bricks of the chimney. These artifacts are from the mosaic filter. "Sharpening" disabled in both JPEGS, it made the converted image look horrible.

[SubPixel]

Thank for uploading these images.  I can see the effect of the mosaic filter, but my current interest is in how the colors translate.  Since you used a red filter on the MM camera, I no longer have access to the original data that the MM sensor captures.

 

Do you have any other such images, without using any filters?

[250swb]

It would probably help if you could explain why you need such detailed comparisons. But the general comparison between an MM and M9 is pretty much like taking a colour photograph and de-saturating it in Photoshop, which you could do yourself with any photograph, it doesn't need to be taken with either camera. Now there are subtleties which make it more complicated, but these are to do with resolution but not colour, and smoothness of tone but not colour.

 

Steve

[fiftyonepointsix]

Thank for uploading these images.  I can see the effect of the mosaic filter, but my current interest is in how the colors translate.  Since you used a red filter on the MM camera, I no longer have access to the original data that the MM sensor captures.

 

Do you have any other such images, without using any filters?

The Monochrom sensor captures light after the Red filter- that is the original image as captured by the sensor.

The image is optically pre-processed rather than post-processed digitally. Filters must be used to make the scene appear more natural as the human eye would see it.

 

The only time that I use the M Monochrom without a color filter in place is for low-light photography.

 

If you are looking to use the camera for technical work, the spectral sensitivity of the sensor is available.

[fiftyonepointsix]

Data sheet for the sensor used in the M9:

 

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/KAF-18500-D.PDF

 

Spectral response is on page 9.

 

Spectral response  for the M Monochrom:

 

http://www.woodycampbell.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Spectral-Sensitivity-Leica-M-Monochrom-1.jpg

[Jeff S]

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One of the biggest advantages of color conversions, for me, is the flexibility to adjust color channels in PP independently (or simultaneously) if desired.  The possibilities to adjust the file, globally or locally, are enormous.  With the MM, one can use a color filter, but that must of course be decided in advance and is limited to one filter selection per shot.

 

The MM may offer other advantages (or disadvantages) for some, but in the area of color translations, the M9 (or any digital M) has far more flexibility.  This may not be relevant for many shots, but I often find it very important for a desired print interpretation.

 

Jeff

[SubPixel]

I am not trying to debate M9 versus MM.  To me, ALL of the M cameras are simply fantastic.  My current interest here is to be able to study some real image captures from these cameras, since their major difference is the presence of a color filter array on the M9.  To me, it is just a fantastic opportunity to see how an image gets recorded with and without a CFA.

 

I realize that people typically shoot the MM with an optical color filter on their lens.  I am simply looking for a pair of raw images taken under the same exposure conditions with the same optical path (except for the CFA on the M9, of course).  The above posted images also differ in exposure and ISO, according to the EXIF information.

 

I realize people have better things to do with their time, but if someone has such a pair of images, or can easily take two such pictures (with red, blue and green colors), please post them here.

 

Thank you.

[Jeff S]

There's no debate for me either....whatever works....but for me nothing matters except the final print, and that always requires various PP actions, just as in the darkroom days where the negative was only a starting point.   Every image has different needs, and potential.  So for me, this would not be a meaningful exercise unless I worked extensively with both cameras....shooting a lot of subjects under varying known conditions....and made prints. YMMV.

 

Jeff

[IWC Doppel]

Having used my M9-P with a lot of B&W conversions (probably 90% of all my prints being B&W). Then buying an MM I have appreciated that 'one' image to compare won't I suspect offer a lot of insight. The MM does B&W differently IMO, in a way that takes time to genuinely appreciate.

 

I love the extra stop or more, and the high ISO look, the ability to add weight and deep blacks without crushing shadow detail (The M9-P files are clumsier in this respect) and the mid-range tonality that seems to offer more subtlety and beauty to some shots. I do still like the M9-P files for B&W images and there is a look from the 9 files that is different from the M files. Then there is the resolution which is amazing....

 

There is a greater need to adjust MM files than converted M9-P files and you have to accept that slider number might be larger than you are used to. I also find lenses 'sing' a little differently on each.

 

I forgot how long it really took me to get to know my M9-P and that blinded my impression at first, I am still getting to know it as it's only been 3-4 months since I bought my MM

 

If you do get two images to compare and quickly conclude that the lack of processing with colour sliders and the flatter starting point to the monochrom put you off you might miss-judge.....