colonel Posted October 14, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 14, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Talking about the pros and cons of the mechanical RF crops up alot in "new M" discussions here, particularly when talking about the SL, but for me its mute. Perhaps there are two main categories of M users (probably alot more in reality). One category are simply attracted to a small and subtle FF camera with great lenses, and perhaps run more on a spec. sheet in terms of comparing to other cameras. The other category love the Leica workflow and MF and feel the RF experience is the best way to achieve it. Perhaps both also like the luxury construction and look and feel. IMHO the mechanical RF its still the best way, bar none, to do MF, and for me MF is the best way to focus on people, buildings and landscapes most of the time.Lets face it, DSLR MF sucks.CSC MF with focus peaking is much better but nothing comes close to the accuracy, under the right conditions, and the smoothness of the RF, and nothing illustrates that better evolved then the M Typ 240. For me the RF combined with a great sensor and a Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander lens is heaven. That doesn't mean the Q isn't great, it is. Nor does it mean that MF is good for all shooting experiences. Many M owners have an AF camera as well. But what the M does do well is not only unbeatable, its beautiful as well. Simply put, I just like being with my M, even when I am not shooting, and that's not something you can say about any other camera ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Hi colonel, Take a look here Thoughts on the rangefinder and the M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Keith (M) Posted October 14, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 14, 2015 As in capturing the decisive moment? M240, 1967 Summaron 35mm f2.8. Spanish street market. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/251317-thoughts-on-the-rangefinder-and-the-m/?do=findComment&comment=2904429'>More sharing options...
Echo63 Posted October 14, 2015 Share #3 Posted October 14, 2015 I fall squarely in both categories. I love the rangefinder, its the main reason i bought an M, its fast, accurate and works in really poor light - i find i can focus the M accurately in light that my 1DX struggles to focus in and i agree that it is the best way to manually focus (i don't mind the old SLR split image/microprism collar, but the screens in modern DSLRs suck to MF with) and now that i have my M, your going to have to fight my ghost before you pry it from my cold, dead fingers - it is simply, my favourite camera i have ever used - its tiny, subtle, has incredible IQ, feels great to use, and makes me slow down and think. but the only reason i started looking at the M is because i wanted a small non-SLR camera with excellent IQ, i started with an X100 but it frustrated me, the AF was slow, MF was even slower - it did take great pics though, and has some neat tricks, like the leaf shutter and built in ND filter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted October 14, 2015 Share #4 Posted October 14, 2015 Taking the optomechanical rangefinder out of the M would remove the only incentive I have to tolerate Leica's somewhat behind-the-curve technology, somewhat dodgy reliability, usually protracted repair times, and grossly inflated prices. Even if they solved the former four issues, the latter would still be a deal-breaker if they deleted the rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted October 14, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 14, 2015 IMHO the mechanical RF its still the best way, bar none, to do MF, and for me MF is the best way to focus on people, buildings and landscapes most of the time. ..... But what the M does do well is not only unbeatable, its beautiful as well. Simply put, I just like being with my M, even when I am not shooting, and that's not something you can say about any other camera ... I fall into both camps. Yes, in situations where the rangefinder works at its best it is unbeatable for precision manual focus. But, there are many situations where it does not work at its best and for those I will use an SLR (on AF or even MF) if I need or have to. It really depends on how and what you shoot, Don't get me wrong, I will always pick up my RF cameras in preference to dSLRs, it, that is, they will focus as well or better for the subject matter I will be working on. Within its limitations RF photography is, to me, the most pleasurable sort of photography. The other thing that I really like is the uninterrupted viewfinder view - again depends on what you do but to me this can be very important. So like I said, it depends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted October 14, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 14, 2015 Harold, mechanical rangefinder on M is the best of what makes Leica since the time of Barnack through Cartier Bresson.Leica must continue to produce this wonderful tool, terrible for fine and precise focusing and for capturing the "decisive moment" Best Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0227 Posted October 14, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 14, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here's my take by someone very new to Leica: I've been shooting Nikon DSLRs/SLRs for the last 25yrs; currently with the D4/D810. After shooting at the US Open Tennis Championships this year It was starting to feel that I had to setup a computer for each event; going through all the settings making sure I had them configured properly before and at the event. This constant task over the years has started to make photography more of a program and less of a craft, for me. I realized I needed change or something to change me. I started to read about the Leica RF platform and took away two generalized statements: 1) Shooting with a Leica RF makes you think about your photography first; shoot second. 2) The Leica RF is the path of least resistance to what one sees through the RF compared to the final print in your hands. After careful consideration with some impulsiveness sprinkled in, I purchased and shot with my first Leica about two weeks ago; the M-P 240. I will say that both statements above seem to hold. The compelling part is when combined, they make me want to put the camera in my hands much more. The results I've been able to achieve thus far, personally, are quite remarkable. I attribute this to the first statement above which I believe leads to the results of the second. Given my abilities, when I really need AF I have the tools. When I want to relax, slow down, and think about the craft, my 240 is what I will have in my hands and the reason for my purchase still knowing something new is on the horizon. ~Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 14, 2015 Share #8 Posted October 14, 2015 There are two types of people in the World: (1) Those whose World is viewed through the lens of zero-sum analysis, and (2). Those who realise the World is rich with subtle shades of difference and limitless opportunity. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted October 14, 2015 There are two types of people in the World: (1) Those whose World is viewed through the lens of zero-sum analysis, and (2). Those who realise the World is rich with subtle shades of difference and limitless opportunity. Cheers John There could also be folk who believe in a mixture of both Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted October 14, 2015 Share #10 Posted October 14, 2015 There are two types of people in the World: (1) Those whose World is viewed through the lens of zero-sum analysis, and (2). Those who realise the World is rich with subtle shades of difference and limitless opportunity. Cheers John Or as Will Rogers said (or should have): "There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who fit into categories And those who don't." Gets me every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 14, 2015 Share #11 Posted October 14, 2015 Or as Will Rogers said (or should have): "There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who fit into categories And those who don't." Gets me every time. There you go, you got it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted October 14, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 14, 2015 An M is pretty much the only camera I can think of that operates in a time-honoured and simple manner. Shutter speed dial on the top, aperture ring on the lens. Comfortable in the hand, compact, and brilliant lenses. I can seamlessly switch between my M5, my M2, and my M Monochrom. I use a Canon EOS-1DX and EOS 5 mk2 for work. I carry those, plus lenses and flashguns around all day. I've got a bad back from carrying this kind of kit for over 20 years. But when I get home, I reach for one of my M's and head out into the evening. It's sheer unalloyed joy. Handsome cameras too. A wee shot of my beloved MM. Best wishes all, Colin Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/251317-thoughts-on-the-rangefinder-and-the-m/?do=findComment&comment=2904567'>More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted October 14, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 14, 2015 I am a devotee also, preferring the size and manual control of an M. I started off with a rangefinder in 1959 and now here I am more than 50 years later with a rangefinder. At the same time, because I started off learning to focus on what I wanted to focus on and not letting the camera do it, when I use a DSLR it is not with 57 or 110 autofocus points, it is with one central point like a RF, using focus and recompose in a way similar to the that of a RF. This works pretty well, and I do not denigrate DSLRs because they are autofocus. I can use the autofocus the way I want to use it, not allowing the camera to make decisions that are properly mine. Maybe this is why I use and enjoy a Leica Q as well as an M-P. Do I still prefer the M? Yes, but at my age sometimes my eyes don't work as well or as fast as they used to and AF used properly is not always such a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted October 14, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 14, 2015 Sure, I've enjoyed the user experience of the M optometrical range/viewfinder for decades (despite matters of which we are all aware, such as fixed magnification, restricted focal-length applicability, and requirement for occasional recalibration). But would I welcome and embrace an electronic range/viewfinder that delivered a user experience which was truly superior to the opto/mechanical version? Of course! Clearly the current state of EVF technology is not there yet, but in my opinion it is inevitable. Until then, liveview and the the electronic "visoflex" complement and extend the capabilities of the current M rangefinder technology. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 14, 2015 Share #15 Posted October 14, 2015 Posting a picture of you camera demonstrates nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Pandorf Posted October 14, 2015 Share #16 Posted October 14, 2015 I made this photo last night as I was leaving the aircraft. As you can see there was light rain falling and it only took me a second or so to make this as IMO the RF is perfect for these occasions. Not sure how well an autofocus camera would have handled this scene but I wanted to capture the drizzle in the headlights. M240 w/35 Lux ASPH., ISO200, f/1.4, 1/45s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted October 14, 2015 Share #17 Posted October 14, 2015 Posting a picture of you camera demonstrates nothing. In my case it demonstrates that I've too much time on my hands this evening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralCoton Posted October 15, 2015 Share #18 Posted October 15, 2015 I thought the brassing on the mm was pretty nice. It showed affection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted October 15, 2015 Share #19 Posted October 15, 2015 Talking about the pros and cons of the mechanical RF crops up alot in "new M" discussions here, particularly when talking about the SL, but for me its mute. Perhaps there are two main categories of M users (probably alot more in reality). One category are simply attracted to a small and subtle FF camera with great lenses, and perhaps run more on a spec. sheet in terms of comparing to other cameras. The other category love the Leica workflow and MF and feel the RF experience is the best way to achieve it. Perhaps both also like the luxury construction and look and feel. IMHO the mechanical RF its still the best way, bar none, to do MF, and for me MF is the best way to focus on people, buildings and landscapes most of the time. Lets face it, DSLR MF sucks. CSC MF with focus peaking is much better but nothing comes close to the accuracy, under the right conditions, and the smoothness of the RF, and nothing illustrates that better evolved then the M Typ 240. For me the RF combined with a great sensor and a Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander lens is heaven. That doesn't mean the Q isn't great, it is. Nor does it mean that MF is good for all shooting experiences. Many M owners have an AF camera as well. But what the M does do well is not only unbeatable, its beautiful as well. Simply put, I just like being with my M, even when I am not shooting, and that's not something you can say about any other camera ... You obviously never picked up a Nikon FM3a. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share #20 Posted October 15, 2015 You obviously never picked up a Nikon FM3a. I have "picked up a FM3a" but other used Nikons I presume it's split image prism ? I personally can't use the split image system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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