Have you seen this guy's grip yet?

[Hans Roggen]

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Nice thread on a inventive idea for a grip in 'advance lever' style:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41649

 

Hans

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Looks nice but i see two glaring issues . One is say goodbye to the hot shoe but more important your putting a lot of stress on the hot shoe mount Not sure the screws would be secure enough becuase the stress is going sideways and not down like a flash

[charlesphoto99]

Looks like a great piece to use for slow shutter speed use. I still can't get anywhere near the usable lower speeds of the M6/7 with the M8. This might help. As to what it's doing to the hotshoe - not a big deal imo esp if used in conjunction with the grip. It's mostly just a resting place for the thumb - something we film users do miss (though I've been using the motor with my 7). Gives one that "on the ready" feel. It wouldneed to be machined to be a very tight fit otherwise it would stress the shoe too much. I'd also want a slim "cold shoe" on top for finder use.

[BerndReini]

Charles,

 

I don't think a handgrip will make any difference.

I use the M8 grip and I have the same problem as you as far as handholding the M8. I used to handhold my MP with a 35mm at 1/8s without any second thoughts, with the M8 and the respctive 28mm, I feel I cannot do this.

I have come to the conclusion that this is because the M8 is sooo sharp that the slightest bit of motion blur or focusing mistake becomes blaringly obvious. The M8 at 160 ISO really delivers medium format sharpness and I use mine in two different ways now: When I want this kind of maximum quality, I expose very carefully at fast shutter speeds; when I'm just going for street photography and documentary style, I just use whatever ISO and shutter speed is necessary to get the shot. If you look at the pictures of Henri-Cartier Bresson for example, you will see that very few of them are as sharp as what we measure our M8 pictures against. Also read the thread about the M8 and depth of field, it seems to be based on the same M8 sharpness characteristics.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I tend to agree somewhat. The M8 is blazingly sharp and any movement and you know it but i also will say you really have to get used to the release and on longer exposure handheld than i tend to squeeze to the very last bit of that shutter and hold for a second than continue on. You just can punch down the shutter on the M8 when shooting slow, simple does not work. Never did this on a flm M so not sure how they are but the M8 takes some thought here

[Guest sirvine]

I had the same idea, but I would have attached it to the near-side mounting point. Also, his doesn't really have the right shape. You can't hook your thumb into it like a real winder. Of course, mine never made it as far as the CAD mockup.

[woodyspedden]

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I too am concerned about stressing the hot shoe. It seems to me that Camadapter's wrist strap, Leica grip, or Leicagoodies sling are all better solutions.

 

Woody

[charlesphoto99]

I tend to agree somewhat. The M8 is blazingly sharp and any movement and you know it but i also will say you really have to get used to the release and on longer exposure handheld than i tend to squeeze to the very last bit of that shutter and hold for a second than continue on. You just can punch down the shutter on the M8 when shooting slow, simple does not work. Never did this on a flm M so not sure how they are but the M8 takes some thought here

 

Guy,

 

You should really do yourself a favor sometime and shoot with an M7. I could handhold down to an 1/8 (even a 1/4 if need be) using the technique you mention. It's a beautifully put together camera - there's a reason Leica offers a five year passport on it. I think it's really a matter of the different shutters used. The cloth is a lot less harsher. Of course I appreciate having more top end with the M8 than the 7.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Go back to film. man i don't know it's been about 7 years for sure that i have not shot a frame of film and about 12 or more since i was mostly digital . Pretty amazing i been doing it this long with digital . LOL

 

Not sure what film to even buy, they took my Kodachrome away and it was all over for me. ROTFLMAO. Actually i handled the M5 and M7 before i bought the M8 and it was sweet no question

[mat_mcdermott]

I used to handhold my MP with a 35mm at 1/8s without any second thoughts, with the M8 and the respctive 28mm, I feel I cannot do this.

 

I find it be the opposite. I can handhold my M8 at much lower speeds than I could with my M6. Perhaps it's because I'm winding film and I can take multiple exposures without moving much and settle into the scene a bit...

 

If you look at the pictures of Henri-Cartier Bresson for example, you will see that very few of them are as sharp as what we measure our M8 pictures against.

 

Didn't HCB say that sharpness was a "bourgeois concept"?

[Joe Mondello]

I'll point Tim Issacs over here so he can address your concerns directly.

 

He gets his first brass model today (or is that tomorrow in China? or was it yesterday? I'm so confused by these International Forums!!!

 

I think it's a cool idea and would certainly love to try it out.

 

Here's a link to a full set of renderings on Flickr . . .

 

M8 Thumb Grip - a photoset on Flickr

[pklein]

For those who have trouble at slow shutter speeds, may I suggest a soft release, such as a Tom Abrahamsson "softie?" It really helps you to squeeze the shutter gently and not shake the camera so much.

 

See: RapidWinder.com Home

(Note that I have no financial interest in Rapidwinder, but I consider Tom and Tuulikki friends).

 

Yesterday I shot a roll of Tri-X with my M6. It was a classical concert at a local high school, for which the M8 would have been too loud. My favorite softie was on the M8, and I forgot to mount another one on the M6 when I put the latter in my bag. Boy, did I miss that softie. It really makes shooting steadily easier.

 

I have not noticed any difficulty shooting slow speeds on the M8 vs. the M6, using a softie. Perhaps I just haven't owned it long enough yet. In any case, the softie can only help. And you won't be wasting any film if your bag presses the shutter Just battery voltage, but that's what the on/off switch is for.

 

--Peter

[charlesphoto99]

For those who have trouble at slow shutter speeds, may I suggest a soft release, such as a Tom Abrahamsson "softie?" It really helps you to squeeze the shutter gently and not shake the camera so much.

 

See: RapidWinder.com Home

(Note that I have no financial interest in Rapidwinder, but I consider Tom and Tuulikki friends).

 

Yesterday I shot a roll of Tri-X with my M6. It was a classical concert at a local high school, for which the M8 would have been too loud. My favorite softie was on the M8, and I forgot to mount another one on the M6 when I put the latter in my bag. Boy, did I miss that softie. It really makes shooting steadily easier.

 

I have not noticed any difficulty shooting slow speeds on the M8 vs. the M6, using a softie. Perhaps I just haven't owned it long enough yet. In any case, the softie can only help. And you won't be wasting any film if your bag presses the shutter Just battery voltage, but that's what the on/off switch is for.

 

--Peter

 

yeah, I tried softies on my 6/7's but found that everytime I pulled my camera out of the bag there was a shot taken and the camera not wound on and therefore not ready. I've since lost them (after losing one too many shots). Guess I'll have to order another and try on M8. They are a good product. Just have to remember to turn camera off.

[DaveB]

I too am concerned about stressing the hot shoe.

Woody

 

I imagine that the torsion and stress applied by the weight of the camera and someone's thumb is likely less than that applied by the repeated mounting and dismounting of a flash unit. After all, what people miss about the winding lever isn't winding it, but the degree to which it adds to comfort and grip security when held with the right hand.

 

Which brings up another point. Leica has admirably tried to make this first iteration of their digital rangefinder M series a classic by trying to hew as closely as possible to the favourite qualities of the M series cameras.

 

I wonder if it might not be an even better camera minus some of the familiar and retro touches such as film advance lever and baseplate. There are probably other things that devotees eventually might come round to letting go of as well.

 

Still, in design the comfort of the familiar is mighty compelling....

[BerndReini]

After using the soft release for several months on my M8, I finally decided to go without it. The reason is that the second stage of the shutter release is so "stiff" for lack of a better word that I feel I am not pressing it straight down with the soft release but rather cock it to the side. It is therefore really hard for me with the soft release to find the point when the shutter is actually triggered. Please reference my thread about the three stage shutter for further explanation.

[Fotogo]

I imagine that the torsion and stress applied by the weight of the camera and someone's thumb is likely less than that applied by the repeated mounting and dismounting of a flash unit. After all, what people miss about the winding lever isn't winding it, but the degree to which it adds to comfort and grip security when held with the right hand.

 

I thought I might add a comment or two on the Thumb Grip idea on RFF. Since it is my design, I am most keen on addressing some of the well thought out points that have been raised here in this forum.

 

As a starting point, I find the M8 a little slippery in my hands, particularly in humid conditons. From that set of conditions, I set out to find a way to make a compact grip for my thumb, that provides the same repeatable position for my hand each time I grasp the M8. My design can be investigated on my flickr site:

 

Flickr: Photos from Fotogo

 

The torques present on the hot shoe are fairly nominal, until you and your attached flash unit collide with a hard obeject, light a wall, where you might be positioning for a more stable shot. These impact forces are quite high and stress the mounts of the hot shoe. However, it is designed for such normal use.

 

The torques exerted by my thumb grip are considerably less, owing to the nature of holding the camera. Most forces are conveyed by compression right into the camera body through the grip. Some components of those forces are resisted by the hot shoe. I consider those forces much less than bumping my flash unit against a hard object.

 

The purpose of making a prototype, the stage I am in at the moment, is to test the fit and finsh of the design, and see what merit or shortcomings it might have. I will be reporting the results.

 

The good thing about this forum, is the opportunity to receive the supportive and critical design comments, before the final die cast mold is made; a rather expensive proposition to be sure.

 

I eagerly welcome additional comments.

 

Tim Isaac

 

 

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks Timothy , i do love the adventure part of this and thinking alternate ways to use the M8. Awesome stuff really and coming from one that will try anything to make a system work better my hat is off too you and please report your findings . My worry was the pressure on the shoe becuase it side pressure but i think if you used this in harmony with the leica grip it may even be a better way than just the grip alone. I know many folks are missing the crank for this reason of security in there hands. Reason i have to use the grip is i can't hold this camera without one. i come from many years on a SLR type bodies so for me i need to hold something. LOL

 

That feel with the thumb pressing on something is a security blanket and can see why you did this design. Now i am not sure how you can arrange the use of a flash at the same time here and that part would really make it useful. yes there are M8 shooters that use flash. Me LOL

[dcoombs]

Tim, a question about the slot for holding an SD card: Looking at your pictures on flickr it seems an awkward place for a card. It's right next to one's face and looks like it could be bent or snapped off easily.

 

Is it really necessary to have a spare SD holder on the grip at all? The grip otherwise looks very practical and neat.

 

Regards, Doug

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[ChrisC]

....... yes there are M8 shooters that use flash....

 

Tying up the hot shoe is a significant disadvantage for some.

 

Timothy - Your design looks very seductive and the Flickr presentation is superlative, but for my hands the curve of the thumb 'rest' starts too close to the hot-shoe and I think the degree of arc is excessive; I suspect the thumb-rest would be more effective with a shortened arc of greater radius with the curve starting in line with [or even further out] than the 'S' of the shutter release. I recognise that this would increase the possibility of leverage on the hot-shoe. The design as it is would displace the natural resting place of my thumb by forcing it closer towards the camera centre and causing unwelcome tension in my hand.

 

Obviously I speak only for myself, and I'd hate it if this post is discouraging. Good luck with your idea.

 

................Chris

[Fotogo]

GUY, thanks for your constructive comments. You keep me thinking. Some of those SLR's certainly are easy to hold. I have my first prototype here with me now and enjoyed the day trying it out. The results so far are good. I feel I have more control over the camera, and a more steady hold as well. I will post some photos at the end of this message.

 

 

DCOOMBS, The SD card slot is not to be used during photography. Its purpose is to provide a temporary place to hold your card when you have the base plate removed and are switching out cards. I find my fingers and hands get busy and I worry I will drop a card and loose it. The slot works great on the prototype, the card wedges firmly in place and wont fall out even upside down. My flickr shows it in use.

 

CHRIS C, Thanks for your comments. I know my grip on the M8 is probably not like yours. I just find it a little too slippery. I have completed my first prototype, and for my method of holding the M8, it is working wonderfully. I will consider other locations as you have suggested, and perhaps there will be a chance to provide a good fit for a wider range of people. Here I show my wifes small hand holding the M8 securely. She is rather small, and the camera is aways a handul for her to manage. The prototype is proving to help her.