colonel Posted September 7, 2015 Share #1 Posted September 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interested in how film sales are going these days, especially 35mm Anyone have a link to stats from Fuji or others on sales ? Seems easy to get Instax sales but not 35mm ... Anecdotal evidence seems to be a rise in sales the last few years but that's not worth the paper its written Also any interesting articles analysing the industry, e.g (sorry if posted before): http://www.thephoblographer.com/2015/04/23/manufacturers-talk-state-film-photography-industry/#.Ve10AP6FNhE Thanks Sorry for the general request, just wanted to see if you folk with much more film experience then me come across anything ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Hi colonel, Take a look here Film sales trend - up, down or flat ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Doc Henry Posted September 7, 2015 Share #2 Posted September 7, 2015 It's unfortunate that people confuse "image" and "photo" as photo from smartphones illegible when enlarge and in "photo" , there is "real" , "faithful", and "natural" photo against "flat", "pixelated" and "synthetic" photo coming from software . I trust the young connoisseurs mentioned in the article.Thank you for the article Harold. Film is not dead ! Regards Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted September 7, 2015 Share #3 Posted September 7, 2015 I can, at any time, get any film I care to shoot. = Film sales are doing well. s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 7, 2015 Share #4 Posted September 7, 2015 "Film" is rather a broad brush. E-6 slide film: Kodak has abandoned it altogether (along with Kodachrome previously), and Fuji is slowly reducing the formats or emulsions available (and push up prices with each new order). Our shop sells about 6-10 rolls (35 and 120 combined) a month. C-41 color neg: Kodak and Hollywood contracted to make and use 450 million feet in 2014 (and an undisclosed amount in 2015). Which means a) there is a stable market for at least a year, but b ), both Kodak and Hollywood are nervous enough about the market and availability to make formal agreements. At our shop, sales of both pro and "drugstore" versions of C41 film are fairly stable over the long term, but bounce around from month to month. Sometimes it lingers on the shelf, and sometimes we get caught short and run out. We process a couple of dozen (at least) rolls per week normally, and have one customer who drops off bags of 100 rolls of 120 at a time (I think he runs workshops). B&W: slight continuous increase in our store, at least for Kodak brands. Every year more local schools (secondary and college) revive basic film photo classes, so we have to order a bit more each time, or a bit more often (and sell quite a few used Pentax K1000s or similar manual film cameras). The instructors either don't know about Ilford, or think it will be hard to find, so they usually list Kodak by name. We try to cross-sell Ilford as an alternative (especially since they make the nice starter kits of 25 sheets of 8x10 paper plus two rolls of HP5, the film discounted to about 35% of the price of buying it separately). A friendly competitor down the street sells sheet films, the Lomo films and some odd formats out of Europe (127, 120 re-rolled as 620, etc.). No idea about their volume though. But, yeah, anecdotal reports from one store or one market doesn't necessarily reflect total market trends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 8, 2015 Share #5 Posted September 8, 2015 I think it's difficult to get a general overview - each of us have just a few narrow data-points from our own limited surroundings. When I started shooting film around five/six years ago, the pro lab I found in Stockholm seemed (to me) to be on a gently downward curve: I never needed to wait in line those first few months. But pretty soon I noticed that things were getting busier and busier. I wrote a couple times on the forum when there was a queue to pick up or leave film - but these days there's always a squeeze of people (mostly 20-ish year olds) coming and going, and Veikko (the great character running the lab) had a sign up looking for an extra assistant to help in the lab last time I was there. He also often needs to work weekends to catch up with demand. On the other hand, I walked into a camera store in Bilbao in the summer, and asked if they had any film bodies - the (customarily rude) owner waved me aside with a laugh, and said 'all that is dead!' So if there's a revival (and it feels like it around hipster Stockholm) then it's probably regional to a very great extent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted September 8, 2015 I think the "all dead comment" is simply an indication that film has become more specialised and only specific shops deal in it. From a London perspective there are still so many pro labs (bayeau, metro, cinelab, etc.) and non pro labs (York cameras, apertureuk, snappy snaps, boots, etc). I was actually amazed at how many are still doing business when I started with film again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 8, 2015 Share #7 Posted September 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's very difficult for me to use film because I either have to travel 160 miles to the one "local" supplier get it and anything related to it, or do everything by post. So whilst there seems to be a nice trend in film sales, it needs to reach another level before I think it can be said to be healthy. At least from my perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 8, 2015 Share #8 Posted September 8, 2015 Comments I've read/heard suggest a levelling out of sales with rises in some areas/products. Ilford said they were seeing year on year increases. The Lomo people have been doing well. Of course there are also motion film sales which make still film sales seem minuscule by comparison for obvious reasons. Yes there are less of us using film. That has resulted in less choice and E6 has really suffered to digital as that was usually the main choice for pro commercial photographers. But production and sale of film products is no doubt still a lucrative business for those already in the market. Let's not forget it was film sales that kept Kodak going all those years they were losing huge amounts on loss making digital ventures, which eventually brought them down! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted September 8, 2015 Of course there are also motion film sales which make still film sales seem minuscule by comparison for obvious reasons. I hear a rumor that motion picture users of 35mm film are set to end completely soon. I wonder how that hypothetical situation would effect still film, if at all. I presume it effects Kodak and Fuji but not any of the smaller players like Ilford ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 8, 2015 Share #10 Posted September 8, 2015 Is motion picture film really like our film? I recall the cheap film of the Seventies which was loaded from 400' motion picture stock, and it was really bad stuff in terms of color and and archival quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted September 8, 2015 Share #11 Posted September 8, 2015 Interesting recent article about film (2/2015) , some extracts : http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/rochester/the-future-of-film/Content?oid=2495566 About film quality , opinion of profess. photographer : "It has a depth to the images that digital just doesn't have," says Heather McKay, a Rochester photographer who shoots weddings in digital, but has returned to film for her portrait work. Her customers notice the difference, she says. When presented with digital and film images to purchase, she says, customers almost without fail pick the film shots. About the future "Last week, six major movie studios signed agreements with Kodak to purchase motion picture film for a few years; the company didn't disclose the exact length of the agreements. The contracts guarantee that Kodak will profit from the manufacture of the film". "But the arrangement is good news for photo film buffs, too, since it means that the plant supplying Kodak Alaris with its film will continue operating for at least the length of the contracts." As long as film remains viable and profitable, Kodak Alaris plans to sell it, and about b&w film : " Praus says that he's also seen growth in black-and-white jobs, which he attributes to the better blacks, depth, and detail that traditional photo paper offers." Best Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted September 8, 2015 Share #12 Posted September 8, 2015 and about wedding photography I agree I had M8-M9 and M7-MP for this wedding. Only film gives best photos. I often photograph weddings with Leica exclusive material for several years, I say without any pretension. an example : Leica M7 Kodak Portra 400 film (dev home C41 - 30°C) Summilux 35 Asph Wedding of Etienne Avize (France) August 2015 depth of the color versus M8-M9 and picture without any correction with software (scan Nik. 5000 >Tiff >Jpeg for post). confetti and married in 3D Dimension Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry PS: and another pictures in "I like film" thread Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry PS: and another pictures in "I like film" thread ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249799-film-sales-trend-up-down-or-flat/?do=findComment&comment=2884557'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted September 8, 2015 Share #13 Posted September 8, 2015 and I also agree with photo paper in b&w mentioned above by Praus Impression on inkjet paper (deposit of ink on the paper surface) or silver paper (impression silver grain in several layers) > not the same process Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249799-film-sales-trend-up-down-or-flat/?do=findComment&comment=2884582'>More sharing options...
adan Posted September 8, 2015 Share #14 Posted September 8, 2015 There are differences between movie C41 film and still C41 film (notably the Remjet anti-halation coating on the back, which amounts to matte-black paint that will gum up regular C41 chemicals, and/or leave nasty black gunk on the emulsion, if not removed with a pre-rinse). But that really isn't the point. In the articles about the agreement with Hollywood, Kodak points out that it has "fixed costs," across all film production, of about $50 million a year. The motion picture market volume covers a large part of those costs, and if it should fade away, it may not be economically viable to buy acetate and gelatin in bulk, or keep the coaters running and the trained staff employed, just for the residual TMax and Portra/Ektar shooters. The big threat to motion picture film volume is not at the front end, where a significant number of directors still prefer film. The majority of movie film "footage" is used for the release prints that go out to theaters - and that is being replaced with DVDs for digital projection, even if the original is shot on film. A director may shoot 200 hours of film for a 2-hour final cut (what with retakes, multiple camera angles, and such) - but 1,000 2-hour release prints is 10 times that amount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted September 8, 2015 Share #15 Posted September 8, 2015 Thanks Andy for these precisions Some more interesting links for Harold http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/lynch/david-lynch-lumiere-and-company-premonitions-following-an-evil-deed-short/ http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-kodak-hollywood-studios-20140731-story.html https://fstoppers.com/film/future-film-interview-cinestill-38141 "I like to make films because I like to go into another world.I like to get lost in another world.And film to me is a magical medium that makes you dream, allows you to dream in the dark.And it’s just a fantastic thing to get lost inside the world of film".David Lynch http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/lynch/david-lynch-lumiere-and-company-premonitions-following-an-evil-deed-short/ When film sales down, I do not think soPeople, connoisseurs of beauty of a picture will return sooner or later to film and will be the future film buyers including youngers that I'm glad to learn Best Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 8, 2015 Share #16 Posted September 8, 2015 It's very difficult for me to use film because I either have to travel 160 miles to the one "local" supplier get it and anything related to it, or do everything by post. So whilst there seems to be a nice trend in film sales, it needs to reach another level before I think it can be said to be healthy. At least from my perspective. But Peter, c'mon, I only have to travel 10 miles and I still buy it mail order because the prices are so much more competitive. It's not as if we need to poke it or inspect what is in the cassette before we buy it. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted September 8, 2015 Share #17 Posted September 8, 2015 I can say quite definitively that my film sales are way up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted September 9, 2015 Share #18 Posted September 9, 2015 all i know is that in NYC the higher end developer/scanner/printer keeps expanding ..... his customers seem to be young and older Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 9, 2015 Share #19 Posted September 9, 2015 I smile when our 35mm friends worry about film and processing expenses. Shoot 8x10" for awhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Mac Posted September 10, 2015 Share #20 Posted September 10, 2015 Is motion picture film really like our film? I recall the cheap film of the Seventies which was loaded from 400' motion picture stock, and it was really bad stuff in terms of color and and archival quality. The current Kodak Vision 3 stocks are incredibly similar to the current Portra stocks. The technology for the newest Portra stock was handed down from their motion picture (Vision 3) stocks. The grain pattern is nearly identical. The color rendition is slightly different in different lighting sources, and there are both daylight and tungsten versions of their Vision 3 stock (in various ISOs too). Of course motion picture film has the extra "rem jet" layer to aid the film running through the gate, so it can't be processed as normal C-41. If you're curious, there's a company that loads Vision 3 onto rolls that you can shoot. It's beautiful stock and you can get it processed if shipped. Luckily that place that processes is near my city. https://filmphotographyproject.com/store/film/35mm-film Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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