alan.y Posted February 15, 2016 Share #21 Posted February 15, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) My Summarit-S 35 came to me with a whirling dead AF motor, or else died the first time I put it to my S 007. It has been back with Leica for a month, along with an S2-P with a cracked sensor. I would like to know if anyone has had an S lens die again after being repaired by Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Hi alan.y, Take a look here 33% failure rate with Leica S system . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hoppyman Posted February 15, 2016 Share #22 Posted February 15, 2016 I'm now up to ~20,000 frames largely with (purchased third hand) S2, now S (Typ 007) and short loan with S (Typ 006) before getting the S2. The bulk of my exposures with my own Summarit S 70CS and APO Macro Summarit S 120. I also recently used a loan 45 and had another 70CS with the loan S (Typ 006). No faults anytime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted February 15, 2016 Share #23 Posted February 15, 2016 S2-P sensor corrosion and 120/2.5 motor death are only issues in 3 years of ownership and eight lenses (some bought new, some used). john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted February 15, 2016 Share #24 Posted February 15, 2016 I have 7 S lenses many for over 5 years. Only one AF issue back in 2013 in Iceland. Lens was promptly replaced. The drybox theory is interesting but I don't understand the putative link. I keep all my lenses and cameras in a drybox set at 40% and never had an issue. Albert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted February 15, 2016 Share #25 Posted February 15, 2016 I also question the 33% number as the denominator (aka the "silent [hopefully] majority") cannot be accurately calculated... Furthermore, if the number were even 3%, then Leica would be out of business.... Albert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2016 Share #26 Posted February 16, 2016 My Summarit-S 35 came to me with a whirling dead AF motor, or else died the first time I put it to my S 007. It has been back with Leica for a month, along with an S2-P with a cracked sensor. I would like to know if anyone has had an S lens die again after being repaired by Leica. So the question becomes ... does Leica have a permanent solution to a spec'd AF motor that was not up to anyone's standard. If this were airbags all the lenses would be returned for upgrade .... Don't assume that I am faulting Leica ... but knowledge of a potential problem may be best addressed preemptively. IF there is a better AF motor then allow us to send our lenses in at our discretion for upgrade ... not in duress when they have failed. I recently bought a S 006 and a 70 which was new and dead on arrival ... sent it back with the camera and actually lost a significant amount working back to a NOS S 006 ... and a couple of V Hasselblad lenses with adapter. Have ordered a 45 and a 100 which I would prefer sending to Solms if there were an upgrade available ... Uncertainty is less acceptable than a delay in delivery ... for a product of this caliber. But just looking at the files makes one accept a small amount of concern ... not a lot. TO the OP ... if there is indeed a new motor then you are farther ahead than the rest of us. And Albert ... a book I can recommend is the Black Swan ... Most of us expect Gaussian mediocracy and this may be more chaotic ... Leica exists and succeeds on the perception that we are indeed in a beneficial relationship ... I pray that is the reality and it is not one of last one out turn off the lights. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2016 Share #27 Posted February 16, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Summicron-S 100mm just carked it, AF broken. That makes it 3 of 6 lenses having had AF break - 50%, how's that for quality. The uptime of my S lenses is just extremely disappointing, flat out un-reliable and un-profressional. The S 007 is a dream machine, just don't rely on S lenses. H-S adapter and H lenses will be my recommended way until Leica implement a proper design. The "Goodwill campaign" is of little comfort with turnaround-time at tectonic pace and no loaners. Truthfully the Goodwill Campaign works to your benefit ... yes you are discomfited by the delay but they will make it right ... Seems like perfection has become the new new standard. You bought into the system ... accept its limitations and leverage its advantages. If you paid for a lens Platinum service program you would have a loaner overnight ... that was my experience with a S2-P. If not then why the emotion ... your choices determine your future. All of us have to deal with the reality of physical decline and uncertainty. Deal with it and above all have a backup plan ... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #28 Posted February 16, 2016 Sorvitt, I feel your pain. You might look at the posts at Leica S & M Warranty and Fixes. Seriously, Leica needs to find a far better way to address the S, SL and M product QC and product development. Leica can do this by vastly improving its Warranty with an immediate, hassle free exchange, be it a camera or lens(es). Then they can figure out why it broke and repair/refurbish the equipment. Read on if you so inclined as I post this on the Leica S & M Warranty and Fixes forum. I wrote: "Based on my experience over the years with Leica and "luxury brands", my recommendation for Leica would be to certainly up the reliability of the products and to rigidly test and resolve the flaws before going into full production. The Leica S2, S006 have/had back focus issues. Now the S007 has this problem...after 2 generations of S cameras, Leica should have this AF issue resolved. It hasn't...Why not is the bottomline. Same went for the M 50mm APO. A stellar lens, yet it should not have gone into production until it was thoroughly tested for veiled flare and back focus issues. It does not do the Leica "luxury brand" any good for its reputation. So, I submit the key is robust pre-production testing inside and outside the company by in-house and outsider hard core Leica users. Once the "bugs" are discovered...fix them before final production. Same goes for Quality Control. If the product doesn't meet the most stringent tests....it goes back for correction or to the bin for recycle. I know Leica employees go to work every day with feelings of pride in their workmanship. Unfortunately, not everyone wakes up feeling GREAT and ready to do their best. This is where the testing and most certainly the Quality Control people are so critical to building the Leica reputation for making the finest, "luxury brand" and "pro brand" cameras and lenses every day. Based on what I have experienced with the most recent S lenses and cameras...this needs a serious look by Leica production management. Same goes for the SL line....back focus and lens issues. In addition, it is now reported by Lloyd Chambers website who just tested the newly released M 28mm f/2.0 Summicron II has very serious back/front focus issues...Why? It simply shouldn't be that way. It gives users the impression Leica is simply throwing products over the fence and hoping people will buy them...in this case a $4,000.00 lens...for What?...Poorly "tweaked" lens redesign(s)? Last, the 6-8 week turn around for Leica NJ and Leica Germany for repairs certainly needs to be cut more than half if they are still going to do the repairs rather than simply replacing the item if under warranty. Just my opinion. Perhaps others may or may not feel the same way. I know pros like myself, using the M, S, SL cameras can not wait 6-8 weeks for repairs...even a week with a temporary swap isn't good enough IMO. Time is money to a pro photographer...down time for MONTHS waiting for repair at Leica is IMO unacceptable...and this DOES HURT the reputation of Leica as a "pro brand". I strongly believe Leica should adopt a simple iron-clad immediate Leica dealer exchange, hassle free, for any malfunctioning camera, lens or accessory if in the warranty period. Outside the warranty period, if things like the AF motors fail due to defective part(s) or components, then simply exchange the lens or camera. This will certainly go a long way to fixing the professional angst and vastly improving the reputation of Leica." Anyone else have feelings about this issue...I would like to hear from you at the Leica S & M Warranty and Fixes forum posts. Thanks for reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #29 Posted February 16, 2016 The issue with the AF motor is with the plastic compound or some sort small spur gear wheel. It is of very good quality and hard but very small. The problem is that it is too small and to drive the larger wheel on the lens group to achieve focus. It put a lot of stress/torque on the connection with the motor shaft and the spur wheel, causing it to split and spin freely. Hence the continuous motor sound with no action on failed AF lens. Anyway, my vendor showed me a bag full of spur wheel from lens that has DOA on his shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sortvitt Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share #30 Posted February 16, 2016 Thanks for the comments. The cause of the AF breaking seem clear, however no solution has been communicated afaik. The Goodwill Campaign is a band-aid, I fail to see why promising to fix an inherent problem is supposed to make us thankful. Anyway, enough gruff from me. As Bob said; deal with it. In my case I'm getting out of S until it is a mature proven platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #31 Posted February 16, 2016 Sortvitt, I agree with you. The goodwill campaign is a band-aid for a deeper problem for Leica. The company has a QC, product development and robust field testing problems. My suggestion of a hassle free immediate exchange of the camera or lens would IMO certainly help resolve its repair, Customer Service and product reputation. What it doesn't do...is greatly improve its QC thereby fielding highly reliable, cameras and lenses considering what these products cost. Robust QC is done in its product development and testing before going into production too. What I continue to see is multi-generational product issues like S and now SL auto focus (S and SL bodies), lens focus shift, field curvature and "tweaking lens designs" (Read M lenses). Why is Leica simply not redesigning M lenses from the ground up for digital? They did it with the S and SL. Zeiss certainly does it and for less money....Why not Leica? This "tweaking" of M lenses is NOT helpful to Leica and most certainly to present and future users. I know Stefan Daniel is working hard to get the Customer Service aspect revamped at Leica. Perhaps Stefan should look hard at its QC and past malfunction histories of the products and direct these must be resolved first before fielding new models. Most certainly the next M camera must be the most reliable in its history or the possibility of users will do what Sortvitt has decided to do...dump Leica for other camera brands. I just hope Leica is listening...better yet, fixing the problems faster rather than generation(s) at a time. r/ Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted February 16, 2016 Share #32 Posted February 16, 2016 I have no idea of any effects that may arise from different storage different conditions or climates, heavy or light use. At my most recent studio shoot, I used my 70 and a loan 45 for about 1400 exposures in 3 hours actual shooting time. Still nothing broke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted February 16, 2016 Share #33 Posted February 16, 2016 Why oh why plastic always in the most critical places? Steel or titan should work without fail I guess...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #34 Posted February 16, 2016 Hoppyman, You are a lucky man. Too many S users to include me, have multiple lens failures. If it weren't for the great S camera image files and images the camera can produce when it works, then many would either not buy or simply dump the S system. Many of us can only "hope" for your good fortune with the S system not failing. r/ LeicaR10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2016 Share #35 Posted February 16, 2016 Why oh why plastic always in the most critical places? Steel or titan should work without fail I guess...? I assume that it was perhaps for the necessity to lubricate metal gears ... many plastics have a lower coefficient of friction and need less lubrication. Now a gear that is faced with teflon or plastic while the bulk of it is metal might have been a solution. Just a guess. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted February 17, 2016 Share #36 Posted February 17, 2016 Why oh why plastic always in the most critical places? Steel or titan should work without fail I guess...? I find some people here actually swapped the plastic gear with a brass one... I don't think it's a wise idea as the big gear driving the lens group is of plastic still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 17, 2016 Share #37 Posted February 17, 2016 I think to remember to have heard somewhere that now Leica uses a modified motor or gear. But I really dont remember where I have read this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted February 17, 2016 Share #38 Posted February 17, 2016 OK, so the title is a bit tabloid, but I have just had my second S lens fail and am not impressed. I had a quick session with the S 007 last weekend and was all excited about the S system. Back down to earth this morning with my 30-90mm whirring limply before dying. It followed my 70mm CS with the same symptoms - no AF. Gives you an impression that the lens AF technology is poorly designed, unreliable and will fail at some point. As with other users these lenses have been cared for, stored in dry-cabinet and low shutter-count. I'm on S 006, latest firmware, - not that it matters. I am sure Leica will repair it and it will come back as new, I expect nothing less. However, until there is a statement from Leica on what causes the problems and how to pre-empt them, I would hesitate to invest further in the S-system. There are simply too many failures. P.S. 2 failed / 6 lenses = 33%. Not to mention the H adapter that had to be replaced. Pretty poor. Join the club.....my 70mm shit itself as well and took 3 months to get it back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted February 17, 2016 Share #39 Posted February 17, 2016 My S-E has had failures since the beginning Leica refuses to replace the camera, I will have to send it in to them through my dealer, so they can 'check' it... Leica S-Adapter C (For Contax 645) lenses needs to be detached-attached everytime the camera goes into sleep... I borrowed a 24mm Super-Elmar-S that sometimes whirs it's motor in a strange way (when you turn the camera on) and then the camera refuses to recognize the lens. The system is absolutely amazing when it works, but quite often it just simply doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted February 21, 2016 Share #40 Posted February 21, 2016 My initial purchase of an S2 included a 70mm lens AF issue, both used. The dealer sent me a second lens and accepted return of the first however the broken 70mm was slightly sharper. He repaired it while lending me the other lens for the 6 week repair. I tested many lenses since and several had the AF issue. My 70mm lens has not had a reccurrance of AF issues, it is performing well. Has anyone with a AF repaired lens had a second failure? If it is a one-of then Leica is addressing the problem in repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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