jbl Posted July 12, 2015 Share #21 Posted July 12, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am sorry, but can you elaborate this, please? Sorry, what I was saying was that photography, unlike painting, is both additive and subtractive. You can move to add things to a frame, you can move to remove things from a frame. Likewise, exposure can cause highlights to blow, killing a background, or shadows to turn into silhouettes. In those cases, you're using exposure and, therefore, dynamic range to limit your composition. Less DR isn't a bad thing anymore than slide film was "worse" than print film. -jbl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 12, 2015 Posted July 12, 2015 Hi jbl, Take a look here New M at PhotoPlus Expo 2015?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mirekti Posted July 12, 2015 Share #22 Posted July 12, 2015 Less DR isn't a bad thing anymore than slide film was "worse" than print film. I got your point, thanks. I am not complaining about the current camera not being able producing great images. However, my point was if there was more dynamic range I could always go back, but if something is blown out... I found Fuji tried something in regards to the highlights more than ten years ago, but not sure what happened to it. http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/S20PRO/S20A6.HTM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share #23 Posted July 12, 2015 Sorry, what I was saying was that photography, unlike painting, is both additive and subtractive. You can move to add things to a frame, you can move to remove things from a frame. You need to watch my wife (or anyone else) paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl Posted July 12, 2015 Share #24 Posted July 12, 2015 You need to watch my wife (or anyone else) paint. I’ll confess to not really knowing much about painting other than I suck at it. -jbl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share #25 Posted July 13, 2015 I’ll confess to not really knowing much about painting other than I suck at it. -jbl Me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Branch Posted July 13, 2015 Share #26 Posted July 13, 2015 Sensors are linear devices. While it is conceivable that a future sensor might show a more film-like characteristics, for the time being we have to deal with what we have got. Or learn to use the "Curves" function which can give a good approximation to the response of film - provided the initial exposure is appropriate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 13, 2015 Share #27 Posted July 13, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Or learn to use the "Curves" function which can give a good approximation to the response of film - provided the initial exposure is appropriate! That’s the point: We have got quite a lot of dynamic range to play with and we can get the gradation to look any way we like. But we need to expose for the highlights. Stubbornly insisting that sensors should behave like a film emulsion and refusing to adapt to their pecularities doesn’t get us anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted July 13, 2015 Share #28 Posted July 13, 2015 I for one am looking forward to a ne M. The Q has one major unrecognised feature, a flash sync speed of 1/500 sec! So no need for flash power reducing HSS to stop most fast movement!!! I really hope this feature makes it to the new M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 13, 2015 Share #29 Posted July 13, 2015 I for one am looking forward to a ne M. The Q has one major unrecognised feature, a flash sync speed of 1/500 sec! So no need for flash power reducing HSS to stop most fast movement!!! I really hope this feature makes it to the new M. That would be somewhat unlikely as it would require a leaf shutter in the lens. None of the M lenses have that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted July 13, 2015 Share #30 Posted July 13, 2015 Sorry, what I was saying was that photography, unlike painting, is both additive and subtractive. You can move to add things to a frame, you can move to remove things from a frame. Likewise, exposure can cause highlights to blow, killing a background, or shadows to turn into silhouettes. In those cases, you're using exposure and, therefore, dynamic range to limit your composition. Less DR isn't a bad thing anymore than slide film was "worse" than print film. -jbl As a professional painter for more than 30 years I wolud try to put some ligth in this subject. IMHO painting can be as additive and subtrective than photography, and in some cases even more. Painting is a mental process, some times a loooong mental process. During this process you can add and substract whatever you want. It is only up to you. As a photographer (My paintings have a close relation with photography), some times ¨I think the photo¨ before shooting. This ¨thinking process¨some times takes long time, and during this creative lapse I have the chance to add and subtract many things. Quite the opposite, when I shoot street I have not time to add and subtract much. Only try to get that special moment. I know this is quite off topic, but I could not help it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted July 13, 2015 Share #31 Posted July 13, 2015 Or learn to use the "Curves" function which can give a good approximation to the response of film - provided the initial exposure is appropriate!Getting close to it already, but not too happy. Especially not when highlights start to become gray. Yes, initial exposure is crucial, but as said I'd welcome two more stops in DR. Hopefully the M from 2018 will come with such a sensor that will eventually bring me to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted July 13, 2015 Share #32 Posted July 13, 2015 If it hadn't been for the sensor cracking and corrosion and my lack of faith Leica would actually commission a redesigned part, I would never have sold my M9. I'm happy with the M240 being quieter and having usable jpegs, but the added weight and bulkier feel, and the always-too-bright electric frame lines not so much. If the new model is any more of a departure from the traditional M rangefinder paradigm, I suspect the 240 will be my last Leica. And if not I still definitely will wait until the new model is available in demo or pre-owned (as I did with the M240). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 13, 2015 Share #33 Posted July 13, 2015 Given that a redesigned sensor is imminent, you may consider moving back to M9 again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw Posted July 13, 2015 Share #34 Posted July 13, 2015 Like Jaap said, I completely expect Leica to move to a more feature rich, less traditional M with this year's model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 13, 2015 Share #35 Posted July 13, 2015 Like Jaap said, I completely expect Leica to move to a more feature rich, less traditional M with this year's model. I don't. I expect the new M to be more focussed on its traditional strengths, and for Leica to release a new Q camera with interchangeable AF lenses and a T mount. I say this with the total confidence of someone who has been 100% wrong in the past! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted July 14, 2015 Share #36 Posted July 14, 2015 I wish the new M had a better EVF. The current model only magnifies the center of the image for focus. I would like the ability to magnify anywhere else. I shoot macro quite often and for me this feature is important. More MP won´t bother me either ( in the 30-36 MP range). I really love the RF the way it is now. Maybe just improve its reliability in order you don´t have to recalibrate so often. I prefer the external EVF rather than a kind of hybrid EVF-RF, and preserve the traditional strengthens and virtues of the system. And, of course, much better and reliable electronics. With all this I would be a really happy camper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted July 14, 2015 Share #37 Posted July 14, 2015 That would be somewhat unlikely as it would require a leaf shutter in the lens. None of the M lenses have that. Ah NOOOOOOO, it is a leafshutter, I thought it was a focal plane shutter that managed a 1/500 sec sync speed. So there goes a big reason for me to get the new M. By the way Pop, my bank manager says 'Thank you' for pointing that out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted July 14, 2015 Share #38 Posted July 14, 2015 That’s the point: We have got quite a lot of dynamic range to play with and we can get the gradation to look any way we like. But we need to expose for the highlights. Stubbornly insisting that sensors should behave like a film emulsion and refusing to adapt to their pecularities doesn’t get us anywhere. For most photography. However, for landscape there's never enough dynamic range! For trying to fit a bright sun and the dim ground of twilight in the 13 stops or so of a modern sensor is still difficult. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted July 14, 2015 Share #39 Posted July 14, 2015 For most photography. However, for landscape there's never enough dynamic range! For trying to fit a bright sun and the dim ground of twilight in the 13 stops or so of a modern sensor is still difficult. Life is a bitch, technology is never sufficiently developed to cater for every extreme one can encounter. But there are work a rounds for extremes of light described above - multiple shots at different setting and merged into HDR image or simply graduated ND filter to deal with extreme highlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 14, 2015 Share #40 Posted July 14, 2015 HDR will give problems with moving foliage etc... We are better of than with film right now already, but more better would be better... :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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