can the m8 shoot RAW files

[jackal]

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cant find it anywhere in the menus

[morffin]

The M8 shoots DNG .... its like a RAW file only better.

[egibaud]

raw file use the DNG format from Adobe.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Richard, it appears that "raw" is "relative." And, Leica is no different than any other camera maker.

 

The M8 shoots a DNG that is compressed in a lossy fashion but which renders the best shadow detail I have ever seen in 35mm.

 

There is a v-e-r-y l-o-n-g thread on this subject and in that thread (and probably elsewhere) there are requests for a NO-Compression DNG. The compression and file writing are handled with software (as is expectable from a small company that cannot afford to make chips for this sort of thing), so may be reversable.

 

This requires both that the above be true (that is, it is possible to write an uncompressed file by a software update) and that Leica be willing to do this. We have no indication -- at all -- that they have any interest in this feature.

 

My prejudice is for "real raw;" that is, gimme the sensor dump and don't mess with it. What we have been seeing in all the updates to the firmware so far is a moving target as far as color balance and white balance are considered. This is obviously hell for Leica, Phase One, and all other profilers.

[tashley]

cant find it anywhere in the menus

 

You also need to be careful about choice of RAW developer software - if you're a Mac user, then Aperture won't open the files without a hack (there's a thread about it on here somewhere, by Jono Slack).

 

The software that came with the camera, Capture 1 LE, will do a very good job with the files but is probably less easy to understand (for me at least) and use than either Lightroom or Photoshop's ACR.

 

Best

 

Tim

[woodyspedden]

You also need to be careful about choice of RAW developer software - if you're a Mac user, then Aperture won't open the files without a hack (there's a thread about it on here somewhere, by Jono Slack).

 

The software that came with the camera, Capture 1 LE, will do a very good job with the files but is probably less easy to understand (for me at least) and use than either Lightroom or Photoshop's ACR.

 

Best

 

Tim

 

I also use C1 Pro which has a fairly long learning curve but which I believe is ultimately the best for accurate color. The other converter very much worth looking at is Iridient Raw Developer (mac only). At $99 this is a fairly inexpensive solution and it does a really good job with the DNG files. There is a trial option for Raw Developer (Iridient Digital) so you can see for yourself. This software is extremely easy to learn as it is laid out in a very intuitive fashion.

 

Hope this may help

Woody Spedden

[sean_reid]

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Just keep the various opinions circulating, I find C1 to be very easy and fluid to work with. I've been using it for about seven years but it felt that way to me even at the beginning.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[wparsonsgisnet]

C1 is certainly easier than PS! Even using Fraser's "Real World" book with PS, I got started with C1-LE faster. I also like the way it flows my work.

 

It will be nice if we get to the point with the M8 that

1. the color balance and wb stop morphing,

2. the C1 guys make nice profiles for the version we get at that time,

3. Edmund can stop chasing a target that moves while building his profiles that I use, and

4. C1 gets enuf influence with the add-in guys that I can use JFI, Neat Image, and the like from inside C1, instead of having to save a tiff and go to PS to finish the workflow and print.

[jackal]

ok thanks very much

i use photoshop since version 2 so no probs there

[wparsonsgisnet]

ok thanks very much

i use photoshop since version 2 so no probs there

 

Richard, the learning curve is a couple of hours long. The doc has a quick guide in it.

 

I had 2 problems:

1. Finding the processed files.

Once I realized they were in the (windoze) program files/phase one/capture one le/images/ directory I realized this was a blessing in disguise and pointed all my other software there. Now, all the files I am working on are in the same place for all the software.

2. Getting profiles into the correct directory.

It turns out that if you right-click on the file name of the profile, windoze will install it in the right place for you.

[johnll]

(snip)

The M8 shoots a DNG that is compressed in a lossy fashion but which renders the best shadow detail I have ever seen in 35mm.

 

There is a v-e-r-y l-o-n-g thread on this subject and in that thread (and probably elsewhere) there are requests for a NO-Compression DNG. The compression and file writing are handled with software (as is expectable from a small company that cannot afford to make chips for this sort of thing), so may be reversable.

(snip)

If the compression is lossy (which it is) then you cannot recover all the original data. Someone may have already commented on this, but I didn't see it on a quick look-see.

[farnz]

If the compression is lossy (which it is) then you cannot recover all the original data...

John,

 

So true, but I understood Bill's reply to refer to the M8's processing of future images (post-software tweak). Bill...?

 

Pete.

[ho_co]

I'll intrude (sorry, Bill--you'll probably want to add to what I say):

 

John, Pete--Yes, you're both correct.

 

The M8 uses a very simple algorithm to store the data, and tosses all but 256 levels. They are gone and irretrievable.

 

Michael Hußmann explained it in LFI in a great deal of detail a few months ago, along with the procedure's advantages and disadvantages.

 

There are a lot of people who, like Bill, feel that if possible, Leica should at least offer the option of letting the camera write the full, uncompressed data set.

 

Leica made the decision to compress the DNG data after viewing prints from the full data set and from the current set: They found no discernible difference; and of course the compressed file writes much more quickly.

 

But most of us say, Put the option of compressed or uncompressed storage in the firmware, and let us decide which we want to use.

 

Hope that helps. As Bill said, there have been a number of threads on the topic; and so far Leica has shown no public interest in modifying this aspect of the firmware.

 

--HC